Does a full length guide rod improve accuracy in a Colt NM 1911?

[40-82 hiker]

I've got a Colt NM 1911 in .45ACP that I am going to resurrect if my back will allow me (picking up brass - ARGH). It is certainly more accurate than I am offhand, but I bounced this issue around some time ago and would just like to see some answers from those who can give definitive analysis to my question about improved accuracy or not. I have done some reading about this in the past, but I would like to hear from someone who has actually replaced the standard spring guide rod with a full length one.

Target load is all I shoot: 200 gr. SWC, 3.5gr. Bullseye, light Colt spring (two came with the pistol, this is the light one, but I do not know its pound rating).

I've got to give up my revolver for a while, as it is too heavy for my spine for now, and I'll trade the weight for having to grovel in the dirt on all fours to get the brass. I love shooting it, however.

Thanks,
Bob

[GhostHawk]

I doubt my answer is definative.

I have a Springfield Armory 1911, made mid 90's. No full length guide rod.

Gun will shoot better than I can hold. Period.

Lock it into a vice or a real good rest, fire 5 at whatever distance you like.
Then take it out and fire 5 with any hold you like. I suspect your group size will more than double.

Chances are the gun will already shoot better than you can hold.

So why chase the gun? Put the energy into teaching the shooter.

[gray wolf]

That question may be a little hard to give a complete blanket statement.
All guns could very well react a tad differently.

Full length G/R will add some weight to the pistol,some people think this helps accuracy.

Also there is some thought that the F/L guide rod prevents spring bind.

I have shot some Dan Wesson 1911's that were very accurate with the G/I
style G/R

As with all gun tweaks---how good does a person shoot ?
If your a great shot some small improvements can be seen.
I doubt a F/L rod is going to show you much.

If your looking to control recoil a little then the heavier G/R can help
some.

People need to still work with other things, it's a whole package.

Just sayin---

Edit-- I agree with GHOSTHAWK

[40-82 hiker]

Thanks. I was just wondering what people thought about such. Sandy Garret did the trigger job for me in the later 80s, and it is a very accurate pistol as is. Just a passing curiosity...

[lefty o]

generally no ,they do not add accuracy.

[Two Barrels]

I have not been able to discern any appreciable difference in accuracy by just a change in guide rod style.

I tired of picking up brass too and bought a brass catcher. Getting it positioned correctly was trial and error. I like it alot now. Saves me time at the range by not having to search for spent brass.

[Bigslug]

My SOP is to rip the full-length guide rods OUT of any 1911 that follows me home and replace it with the original GI profile parts, largely down to me having a real peeve about needing things like Allen wrenches to field-strip a pistol that could originally be detail-stripped with nothing for tools but its own parts.

But accuracy in the system stems from ability of the gun to consistently lock the barrel into relationship with the sights/slide every time. This is going to be a factor of the barrel bushing's fit to barrel and slide and of barrel and link to slide, and all of that gets hammered home by the recoil spring regardless of how that spring is contained. You might get some improvement if the tolerances in the gun suck, but otherwise probably not.

I figure the "definitive" answer on the subject probably comes from Les Baer, makers of probably the most accurate 1911's out there. If FLGR's helped in the accuracy department, they would use them. They don't.

[Bazoo]

From what I gather, the main advantage is that they add weight to the front of the gun. I personally dont like them as It prohibits a press check.

[40-82 hiker]

So why chase the gun? Put the energy into teaching the shooter.

Thanks GhostHawk... This is what I consider shooting all about (the shooter). I've shot this pistol considerably over the years, but my crushed body is giving up the ability to hold the gun up for very long. Still, I work at my technique every session. Just thought I would show what this pistol is capable of, and myself when I can catch a good day for my spine. Did this one day last week, 50 feet, offhand (two-hand hold - can't hold the gun up with one hand), 5 shots (most I can shoot accurately in a slow-fire string). Called the one at 4 o'clock, the others were good calls. I know people on CB can do this all day long, every day, but I really have to work at it to stay consistent. Too many bad days... Still, some good days. Didn't think I could still shoot 4 tens in a row, the 5th being at 4. Wish I could not see those holes at 50 feet while shooting!

Have a nice evening.

[40-82 hiker]

Thanks guys. I'm not going to get a full length rod. As I stated earlier, I was just curious. The extra weight would actually work against me, but it would help settle the gun down some. I've just taken it out twice recently, after a hiatus with it of around 2 years. The first time a couple of weeks ago the front sight popped up! Yep, I had to tap it back in with blue loctite (did not have the heart to use red). The above target was the second time out, first after fixing the front sight. Thank goodness for Youtube! I did not stake it, but will if it comes back up. Since I only shoot such low-power loads, I'm guessing it will be okay. Second time, I'll stake it.

[Bazoo]

Thats mighty respectable at 50 feet I think. Bout what I can do.

[40-82 hiker]

Bazoo,

I have never fired a pistol like my 1911 NM before. To me it is more like shooting a rifle than a pistol, at least in its potential for accuracy. I have to admit that I had never even fired a 1911 before purchasing this one way back when, and only fired one other since. Guess I need to get out more. I guess what I am saying about it being more like a rifle, is that my calls are more spot on like that of a rifle than a pistol. Maybe it's just me, but that's the way I see it.

[35remington]

Better not to see the holes when you are shooting as you will psych yourself out, but with 45 caliber holes you don’t have much chance of not seeing them unless the target is pretty far away.

Oh well. I just try to concentrate my brains out on sight picture and trigger management and let the chips fall where they may so to speak.

[JimB..]

That’s good shooting. Sorry for your physical challenges. While you like the full size 1911 have you considered shooting a lightweight commander or even, gasp, trying a revolver in .38 spcl?

[40-82 hiker]

That’s good shooting. Sorry for your physical challenges. While you like the full size 1911 have you considered shooting a lightweight commander or even, gasp, trying a revolver in .38 spcl?

No gasp involved at all: I would absolutely love to have .38 Spcl. Hands down, really. I have been shooting a Colt Trooper MkIII for some time, using HG #50, .38 Spcl wadcutter brass, 2.7 grs. Bullseye, and .357 mag brass with 2.9 grs. Bullseye, and same HG #50. Love those loads! However, the pistol is heavy for its intended use by me, and there is only so much a Wolf Spring Kit can do for it (the sintered steel action parts, with surface hardening, preclude honing, so the revolver will never be a true target pistol, though I sure use it as such!). Just getting too heavy at around 45-46 ounces with the 6 inch barrel. I'll be working on getting the .38 soon, I hope. Been looking for now going on too long!

As to the small .45s, really have not considered them, but cannot say why. I'll have $$ for only one, so it will be the .38. Edit: Don't have to chase the .38 brass.

Thanks

[Silverboolit]

Can't offer much advice about .45 shooting as we all have our priorities. However, the brass retrieval is a lot better with a Brass Wizard. It looks like an old time bingo ball age and is made to pick up brass without getting on all fours. I really like mine, and my shooting partner uses it like a lawnmower to pick up all of the range brass on the ground.

[bob208]

don't know about the guide rod. I don't like them.
but I can hel you get shooting again. go to a tool or hardware store. they have a tool about 18 inches long. push on the handle end and 4 fingers come out the other works great for fishing out dropped wrenches nuts and bolts. also does a wonderful job picking up brass.

[KVO]

Bigslug is correct with parts fitting and lockup for accuracy. When I worked with one of the well-known competition shops the national-match bullseye pistols were built with a standard GI recoil spring and guide rod setup. Absolutely no difference in accuracy at 50 yd from a mechanical rest between standard versus full length guide rods. The better guns would hold 1.75" for ten shots with selected ammo, some better and a few worse.

On the other hand, the 3-gun/action side of the house always used full length guide rods, not for accuracy enhancement but because the shooters subjectively felt the guns ran smoother and were able to recover for followup shots faster. How much difference it made in reality is questionable, but if it gave them more confidence in their equipment it was worth it.

[Plate plinker]

No it doesn’t not. I also know 1911 affciamdo gunsmiths that dislike those things.

[40-82 hiker]

However, the brass retrieval is a lot better with a Brass Wizard.

Just ordered one. Thanks! Others offered advice about picking up brass as well, so who am I to stand in the way of progress. Happy days are here again, the skies are blue...

Still going to get the .38, but going to keep the 1911 out for good now. I shoot over dirt at the range, but it looks like the Brass Wizard works best on harder surfaces, so I'll have to put out a drop cloth or such to land the brass on. I tried a brass catcher once, and HATED it. Maybe I did not give it enough time.