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Thread: New caster - lead question

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold Md2hunt's Avatar
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    New caster - lead question

    I've been loading for a long time and thought I'd try casting to save $$. I recently bought some lead from a yard sale deal. Ingots marked RCBS. I ran a couple and cast my 1st lead today. Some came out real nice - shiny. Some are dull. Curious about the type of lead I melted and why the difference.
    I smoked my new mold and pre-heated before I started. Also I'm not sure what setting the pot should be set to. It's a Lee and I had it on Number 8.

    Any help is appreciated.
    Thanks
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    New caster - lead question

    Md2hunt,
    Welcome to the forum.

    I moved your post to a area where you are more likely to get some good answers.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master
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    The shiny ones are from too little heat (mould and/or alloy), the dull looking ones are from too much heat. Each Lee pot is different, but of the three I own, the setting that works best is between 6 and 7. Hang in there and do some more experimenting, you'll find the right combinations.
    You cannot discover new oceans unless you have the courage to lose sight of the shore

  4. #4
    Boolit Master BNE's Avatar
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    Welcome to the madness. There is no turning back now.

    Good looking bullets even with the differences. I use a Lee pot also. What you are seeing is the temp. difference. Shiny typically means too cold, Frosty means too hot. (Both will shoot, but what you are really looking for is consistency. If you add a Thermometer you will see that the temp of the pot will change as you are casting. Its all a balance. Mold temp, pot temp, cadence of casting, how often you add new lead to the pot, the size of that lead..... It can be overwhelming, but start sing the search function up above and you will find out almost everything you need to know.

    Also, the "RCBS" ingots are just the stamp on the RCBS ingot mold. It will tell you nothing about the alloy mix.

    BNE
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  5. #5
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    Lee pots are like an electric range giving more or less heat as you turn the knob but not a specific temperature. A thermometer either electronic or mechanical will give you a handle on it. If you are handy you could assemble a PID and use the thermometer part for now.
    Mal

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  6. #6
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    Welcome to CB Md2hunt. If you decided to cast to save money, forget it. You won't, you'll just shoot more.

    Your boolits look great, especially for the first go round.

    Cast boolit accuracy is determined by fit - boolit should be .0005 to .003 over slugged bore diameter

    Alloy - bullet needs to be soft enough to obturate (fill the grooves) and hard enough to hold together and not lead the barrel

    Velocity - again push the4 boolit hard enough to obturate and spin fast enough to be accurate but not so hard as to strip lead of going down the barrel.

    You'll find a lot of good information here http://www.lasc.us/

    these will help you get started:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Various-Alloys
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=105952
    You need to be able to determine the hardness of the lead- cheap & effective
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...rdness-testing

  7. #7
    Boolit Master 44Blam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grmps View Post
    Welcome to CB Md2hunt. If you decided to cast to save money, forget it. You won't, you'll just shoot more.
    This is the truth.

  8. #8
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    Welcome aboard. Others hit the nail on the head. You will do well to get a lead thermometer. That way if you have mold fill out problems or something you will have a known that you can control and adjust. The dull grey ones are from the mold temp too high, use a damp sponge or a second mold in rotation. It takes a while to learn a rhythm that matches the molds. Even when you learned it takes a few cast to set into it. The dull grey ones don't look pretty but the will still shoot just fine.
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master copdills's Avatar
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    welcome to the silver stream , Thermometer is your friend

  10. #10
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    Temperature control can be tough, as mentioned above, Lee pots' control numbers are just for reference, don't mean much. I cast for many years without a thermometer, and even though I have one now, I rarely use it. I preheat the mold on a hot pate and make sure the pot has had enough time to thoroughly heat the alloy (don't get in a hurry). There isn't anything really wrong with either frosty or shiny bullets but shiny ones indicate cool alloy and fillout may be a problem.

    I've been told "the only way to learn to cast bullets, is to cast bullets". Practice, practice, practice. One really nice thing about casting bullets is you can just drop the bad ones back into the pot any you are the only one to know how many culls you've had...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  11. #11
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    Simplest test for what kind of lead is thumbnail test, is it scratched by yours? RCBS defines the mold used. Search out pencil test for using artist's pencils to determine hardness. Other devices are available. Lots of data here to investigate.
    Last edited by William Yanda; 03-21-2018 at 01:51 PM. Reason: typo
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  12. #12
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    Thats not bad at all for first cast but yes your question revolves around temperature. Top row is frosty from running little hot and bottom row was with alloy little bit too cold.
    You want to be somewhere in between those two temperatures. Shiny is fine but your bottom row especially boolits 1 and 3 from the left have rounded bands. You'd want nice square bands to seal that boolit correctly and not allow any gas cutting.
    You dont need thermometer or PID controllers to achieve that neither. I understand you have more control and better consistancy in the long run but I build PID and I found that I'm not using it at all. I dont hunt with my cast ammo so I dont need supreme accuracy with these bullets.
    Here is what I do when I cast. I also use Lee 4/20 pot and I start at 9 until my alloy and mold are up to temp. Then I continue to cast adding sprues back in until I see frosting then I start turning it down about half a number. Once your boolits lose the frost or get shiny stop turning it down and continue to cast. This is where you want to be between frosty and shiny happy right in the middle. As you empty the pot temp will rise again so continue to cast until you find frosty ones again or pot runs out. Rinse and repeat.

    For some reason I love casting as I find it very relaxing and I'm sure you'll get hooked too. Its the easiest thing to master as your not wasting any materials other then some electricity but thats not much so cast , cast and cast some more. You'll get it just practice.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Yodogsandman's Avatar
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    Welcome to the site, Md2hunt! Lot's of good advise is given above. I'll try to add some more nuggets.

    Crank up that pot to the highest setting. Fill and dump that mold as fast as you can and don't look at your boolits until you notice that they are fully covered in frost. Leave a big sprue puddle while doing it. Once you notice the frosting on your boolits, you can slow your cadence and start looking at the boolits. If the edges are rounded and whitish on your lube grooves and still frosted, turn the heat down a little. Heat is your friend. Boolits frosting over means you are right at the right temperature. Both the alloy and your mold need to be at the right temperature.

    The Lee #20 pot has an adjustment for the amount of alloy coming out of the spout. Adjust it so that the stream is almost causing a rooster tail back out of the fill hole when you fill the cavity. The faster the cavity is filled, within safety and reason, the better.

    Be sure to pour a big sprue puddle on top of your sprue plate. This will heat up your sprue plate and prevent rounded bases. It also provides the cavity a sort of molten reservoir to draw on for when the alloy cools and shrinks. The sprue plate needs to be adjusted so that it just slides off by itself when tilted all the way to the side. Too tight of a sprue plate will also cause rounded bases from not allowing the mold to vent.

    Your sprue puddle should frost over in 5 or 6 seconds. Then, after a few seconds more, the sprue plate should be moved over to cut the sprue base. Some use a gloved hand and some use a whacking stick (mold mallet). The timing will depend on whether the sprue cuts clean, will rip out a part or show a raised cut. Learn the amount of waiting time (in seconds) to cut the sprue off to get nice, clean cut offs.

    A PID temperature controller, a hot plate or a thermometer are all really nice to have and will help your casting a lot but, aren't really needed just to get started making great boolits.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Welcome Aboard! Those are pretty good for a first effort. The shiney ones are from the mold or alloy not being hot enough and they are not completely filled out. The dull ones are frosted from being a little too hot but are well filled out. I personally would cull the shiney ones and load the frosted ones. Your lead could be about any alloy. The RCBS just means that it was cast in an RCBS ingot mold. There are several ways to check hardness. Trying to score it with your thumb nail can give you an idea.

  15. #15
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    a thermometer or PID will go along way to help you.

    is there someone in your area that can mentor you? A few hours with them are worth more than 10,000 emails and forum replies. You don't give you location. We might be able to steer you towards someone in your area
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  16. #16
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    Since temp will vary as lead is cast from the pot I won't disagree that this could explain the basic difference which does appear to be a hot or cold cast as already described. I would also look to your casting pace. And where you were in the casting process. Mold might have been cooler to start, then bullets changed as mold heated up. Or as you got more comfortable you started going a bit faster which leads to a hotter mold. Or were stopped examining bullets once you saw good ones coming out and that leads to faster casting yielding a hotter mold.

    Been my own experience that I'm more likely to be a variable than the pot of lead once it hits the operating temperature. My opinion frost (hot) is better is better than shiny (cold) because the colder mold tends to not drop as sharp edged and crisply defined bullets. The stock advice I got was cast till they get frosty then back off temp just a small amount, semi-frosty being the intended outcome.

    I find a thermometer useful. This one will generally be less expensive than "reloading branded" ones. Same range of temperature coverage. https://www.amazon.com/Tel-Tru-LT225.../dp/B0055777EU

    Location can be entered it your profile. Most use a sort of general area or compass direction from nearest large town. Northern Michigan, or Lansing area rather than a specific town but it does help you connect up with people in your area via private messages.
    Last edited by RogerDat; 03-19-2018 at 05:53 PM.
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  17. #17
    Boolit Mold Md2hunt's Avatar
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    Thank you so much for the info. I can't tell if the lead I have is a mix of alloy/lead. I'll dial it down a bit and try again.

  18. #18
    Boolit Mold Md2hunt's Avatar
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    What an overwhelming number of responses and all I can say is that I have read every one of your comments and really appreciate the help. Thank you so much for the advice.

    I will start watching temp, how quickly I am filling the mold and my timing in between bullets.

    I picked up the pot at a yard sale on a deal a few weeks ago and wanted to see if I can do this. I have been collecting lead ingots for the last couple of years and have about 150lbs. The pot I bought has a scoop rather than a dump. I've seen the Lee pot with the bottom fill - would that be a better pot? My old man who is a blacksmith guy says that dross forms on the top of molten lead like an impurity clinker in steel. Do you ever scoop and toss this or do you not worry about it.

    So many questions but I will check out the links you all provided and do some reading up.

    Again, thank you all for the advice.

  19. #19
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    With a bottom pour pot, you don't have to worry about the dross on top since the lead comes out the bottom.

    There are members here that swear by the dipper method, in dipping you need to keep the top clean.

    Both work, I find bottom pour more efficient.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    also, make sure your sprue plate swings freely, this gives the air in the mold a way to escape, and will help with the rounded edges, I just had that problem with a new noe, it was mainly with the rear cavity. some molds you can get away with having the sprue plate a bit tighter, which helps to keep it in place. each one is different. I aslo like my boolits to be a bit frosty, but not as frosty as yours! but you did a great job for your first time! makes sure you pre heat your mold well, I dip the front of mine in the lead until the lead doesn't stick when you pull it out. also I usually just ill the mold and dump it right back in the first 2-3 times to heat it up more evenly, then I start casting. these guys are right, the heat dial numbers don't mean much. I run it full on til its melted, then back it down to a bit below half, and as it empties, you will need to back it off more, since there is less lead to heat. you might also add a little bit of tin, 2-4 ounces per pot or maybe 1-2% in weight will also help to fill out and make those edges nice and square. don't worry! you will be a old pro in no time! ps- a dial thermometer helps, I like to cast at 750, I just check every once in a while.
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