Suppressors and the .223

[farmerjim]

Hogs have very good hearing. All the hog hunters I know around here have quit using sub sonic loads. Most have gone to max 308 loads.

[UKShootist]

In the UK a suppressor for a firearm is treated as a firearm for licensing purposes. Once you have a firearms licence you have to show good reason to own a particular firearm. While it used to be difficult it is now more or less accepted that Health and Safety is a good reason for hearing protection. I have sound moderators for two .308 rifles, a .223 rifle, and a few .22 rimfire, and a .17HMR.

The benefits are that they muffle the cartridge bang, but obviously there is still a considerable crack from the bullet being supersonic. The benefit in the field is that the quarry will hear the crack, but will be unable to determine where it can from. When I shoot a rabbit with a suppressed .22lr the noise from the shot, or the impact of the bullet will scatter any that are nearby. OTOH, I have shot five rabbits one after the other with a .17HMR because none of them bolted when I was shooting. I can only assume this was because they couldn't determine the direction of the threat. I don't see why this shouldn't apply to hogs just the same.

[Kestrel4k]

...I am going to use a bolt gun...

What bbl length are you going to use ?

[HollowPoint]

I use a 30 caliber suppressor with an adapter on my 223 and it works real well but, I just thought I'd ask; have you ever considered buying and using one of the latest offerings of PCP air rifles? Some of them come integrally suppressed already which makes them just as quiet -if not more so- than suppressing a 223. With some of the .22 calibers you can still cast your own ammo and ditto with the .25 calibers. Including an inexpensive hand pump the whole setup cost about the same as a good suppressor.

The Kral Puncher-Breaker bull pup comes to mind. I believe it's sold in 22 and 25 calibers. Both are super accurate and carry plenty of hog killing power out to fifty or sixty yards if the shooter does their part. If you have a little more expendable income there's a small bore dinosaur killer called the Huben Mk II. Both can be had with suppressors in place.

Some will argue that then you'll have to buy peripheral equipment like air tanks, gauges and hoses and such. All I use is a $35.00 hand pump I bought on ebay. I don't shoot enough to justify laying out that kind of cash for all that other stuff. The PCPs with regulated tanks can give upwards to sixty shots before they need to be topped off again.

I just thought I'd ask.

HollowPoint

[JimB..]

If sticking with a bolt gun, and assuming that you’re good with loading your own, then forget 300blk and get a 308 that you like and load for the application. Try suppressed subs, if they don’t work try suppressed supers. Maybe mix it up every week to keep them guessing.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the 300blk, but it doesn’t do anything that you can’t do with 308.

[popper]

BWPaul, don't know where you're at but friend (Abilene) went out last weekend, got one trapped but saw 70 or so @ 400 around the feeder - said a couple were over 300#. He didn't say if 223 or 7mag. You try one shot and they scatter after the first hit - from the sound of the hit or squeal. Even in the NV vids, they scatter - might mill around for a while. Good reason for an autoloader. Lots of people using the BO with 125gr tssx or black tip at full tilt. I use a 145gr cast that easily goes 2k fps so decent range. Interesting, guy at range had the ATN NV he was trying to sight for his 6.5 - couldn't see the target right in daylight.

[buckwheatpaul]

What bbl length are you going to use ?

I am looking at the Ranch by Ruger...bbl is 16" and has a magazine if I remember right.....this setup would be dedicated to hog control

I have used a 308 or 223 with a 2.5 x 10 Leupold scope and a green stick light and shot hogs at night to 125yds but the sound only allows one hog per hunting trip......

The seminars that I have gone to use suppressors and tell you to start with the last hog in the line, if they are moving and work forward....if there is no squeal then you can work toward the front of the sounder.......one squeal = hog stampede!

[dk17hmr]

Have you thought about 300 AAC Blackout

you can pick up a Ar upper
you can shoot sub sonic 200- 247g at 1000 fps

energy will be way above what a sup sonic 223 will be

if you look at it this way

223 = 60g x 1000fps = 60,000

Jacketed 223 = 55g x 3000fps = 165,000 with


30cal 200g x 1000fps = 200,000

more than 3 times the energy of a sub sonic 223

30cal 247g x 1000fps = 247,000

more than 4 times the energy of a sub sonic 223

IF you go on line and search you can find videos of 300 blackout supressed and not-supressed to see them in action

That's not how energy works.

Grains x speed x speed / 450400 = energy

Buy at least a 30 caliber can unless you want to start collecting them. Liberty Mystic X looks like a great multi use can. I have a liberty cosmic in jail right now, a 30 caliber thunder beast, and an AAC rimfire can. 30 caliber is very useable on smaller calibers.

[rockrat]

dk17hmr is correct for the energy calculations (mass x velocity squared divided by 450400) and the mass x velocity equation is for momentum

[WJP]

He was probably trying to sell you a 223 because he needs to move them. Most people nowadays don't run 223 cans. I would go 30 cal and run it on both. I believe extreme shock made some 100 gr subs a while back. I run a 223 only because it is better than nothing. However 300 and 308 is pleasant and enjoyable to shoot. If I didn't go 30 cal I would run a 9mm upper suppressed. You would be better served running a 22 suppressed than a 223 fmj sub. Good luck with your purchase.

[buckwheatpaul]

Guys, you cant believe how much I appreciate your input....in fact I was able to find suppressed 308 ammo and will have my 308 threaded......my wife cant believe that I will pass on another rifle....but the truth is I like the old calibers and dont want to reload for another caliber....the trick will be to see how much I will have to adjust my scope when I go from 150 gr to the suppressed load....Paul

[WJP]

It will be quite a bit. Also before you thread your barrel I would check the twist. You may still end up with a new rifle. I'll need to double check but if you are talking the 175 gr boat tail subs in a 1:12 they work but are on the low end of stability. Don't want to see you with a baffle strike.

[dk17hmr]

Suppressed 308 ammo?

I shoot full power 178gr @ 2775fps from my 308 with the can, the super sonic crank doesn't seem to bother the animals I hunt it's more of the bullet impact.

[JimB..]

What WJP said, I suggest that you look for a 1:10 barrel.

[Cap'n Morgan]

I have shot a lot of foxes using a suppressor - several times two or more in a row. The trick is to start with the one farthest away if there's more than one target, as the sound of impact will often send the others running towards you. Forget subsonic loads - hogs and foxes have excellent hearing and will hear you anyway - they will hear you working the bolt a hundred yards away if you're not careful.

[ATCDoktor]

Here’s a video of me shooting a couple of Jackrabbits with a suppressed 17 Hornet.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RME1NmPmEMo

If you watch the video real close you will see that the “far” rabbit doesn’t flinch at the sound of the rifle shot, he flinches at the sound of the bullet hitting the “near” rabbit.

Distances to the rabbits was 200 and 225 yards respectively.

Ammo was Hornady factory 20 grain “ballistic tip” bullets.

The suppressor was a Gemtech Titanium Trek.

The rifle was a Ruger model 77/17 in 17 Hornet (pictured below)

[robg]

I use a 30 mod on my 223 works fine.

[JimB..]

A couple of you guys have mentioned the animals reacting to the impact rather than the shot. Isn’t it true that they would likely hear the impact and shot at about the same time given a supersonic round? The animal you shoot would never hear the shot as the bullet arrives before the sound, the animal standing next to the one you shot may hear the impact before they hear the shot, all just depends on distance.

[buckwheatpaul]

WJP and JimB.. got me to thinking and I called Ruger this morning....furnished the serial number and caliber and found out that my M77 was built in 1979 and has a 1:10" twist....so going forward with a 8" titanium can for my 308.....the dealer stated that the wait time is about 6 month now......looking forward to giving it a spin.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help.....Paul

[WJP]

Glad you found one you like. Be warned not to run it hot. Titanium is light but weakens with heat. So no quick mag dumps, bump fires, full auto, etc. I have a Ti can and love it for my bolt/hunting guns but it doesn't see much over 5-10 rounds in a row. Ti looses strength around 750 degrees I believe.