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Thread: best hunting bullet for .358 winny

  1. #21
    Boolit Master


    richhodg66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
    I loaded up some RCBS 35-200 FN that I had cast and water dropped. The rifle was a Browning BLR in .358 Win. BHN of 21. I fired them into a 55 gallon barrel at point-blank range at 2100 FPS and the nose disintegrated into multiple fragments and the bullet yawed sideways and left a barely discernible dent on the bottom of the barrel. Same result for 5 rounds. The recovered bullet weighed less than 40% of it's original weight.

    I considered this to be a complete failure and abandoned the project.

    Probably OK for deer, provided you don't mind significant meat loss.

    Completely unacceptable for larger game, in my estimation.

    YMMV.
    That bullet is a great deer bullet, I and several others on here have used it successfully with no excessive meat damage. You cast it way too hard, pushed it too fast and shot something that wasn't realistic at point blank range and then call the bullet a failure?

  2. #22
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35 shooter View Post
    BTW, the lee 200gr 35 cal. rifle boolit which was mentioned in post #2 is supposed to be the same as my noe360200 if your looking for a cheaper mould. Both are just clones of the rcbs 359200 gr. the way i understand it.

    I have a rcbs 359200 and it pours ww at .3595". I like to size .360" for my rifle and the noe mould reaches that with ww easily.
    Don't know what the lee pours at, but just guessing at .359ish. Maybe someone else knows for sure on the lee.
    I cast the RCBS version at .3595" and with lube and gas check it weighs in at 213 grains when cast out of air cooled COWW with a few percent added tin. The only probably is that the mold is only a 2 banger, so I am in the process of buying a second hand Noe version from another member that is a 5 banger. The advantage of the Noe/RCBS version over the Lee is a bigger meplat. If you are making this load up just for deer/hogs (I also would not try for elk with this one), I would drive it no more than 1800 to 2000 FPS and make sure it is cast on the softer side with a generous dollop of tin to keep the slug together on impact. Should give very good performance on deer and pigs.

    For Elk I am going to see how I can get a 200 grainer to shoot out of my 30-06, but realistically I will probably continue to use the Barnes TTSX I used last year. The half a box a year I use will not make a whole lot of difference to my pocketbook and I won't worry if the only shot I get is 250+ yards.
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  3. #23
    Boolit Master Djones's Avatar
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    The smaller meplate in this mould should help with the higher velocities that you are after.

    Name:  N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_360-228-FN_(GC)_Cust.Jpg
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    http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...7duopntpe91mb7
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  4. #24
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    I'm leaning towards this one from Accurate molds:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Accurate_36-240AG-D.jpg 
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    only looking for 2200 ft/sec, not looking for big bears.
    ..

  5. #25
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    https://www.starlinebrass.com/articl...jor-Contender/

    Now to answer one of your questions, the 444 marlin has a .429 bore and the .358 a 358 bore.
    So if the bullet travels, let's say, two inches down the bore from the case, there is much more volume behind the bullet with the .429 bore. That is why they load differently and have different rules.

    Hope this is of some assistance
    Mike
    Last edited by skeettx; 03-18-2018 at 02:36 PM.
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  6. #26
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richhodg66 View Post
    That bullet is a great deer bullet, I and several others on here have used it successfully with no excessive meat damage. You cast it way too hard, pushed it too fast and shot something that wasn't realistic at point blank range and then call the bullet a failure?
    The OP specifically asked about cast bullets at high velocity. I posted the results of a test I conducted, as opposed to conjecture. If you disapprove of my methods and have conducted a high velocity test of your own, you are certainly free to post the results of your testing and methods.
    As I posted, I ceased the test because it was apparent that casting the bullet hard enough to survive the forces higher velocities required resulted in fragmenting of the bullet nose. Which I suspect would result in excessive meat damage.
    I never meant to imply that the RCBS-35-200 was not suitable for hunting.
    Missing the target is not the worst thing you can do.
    Not taking the shot is.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master chutesnreloads's Avatar
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    If any are interested...I have some of the aforementioned Lee 200 grainers setting here.They drop at .360-.361 from my mold with linotype at 192-193 grains.Have some cast of 96-2-2 but they're not convenient for weight measure.They work well for .357Maximum loads.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    I can certainly see that certain alloys at whatever bhn can fragment on impact at a certain higher velocity.

    I've come to view bhn as an indication of only what that "particular" alloy can take at a "particular" speed.

    In other words, i heat treat ww to 27 bhn to take the speeds i shoot at (2400 to 2500 fps.) and have broken the scalpula on whitetails at as close as 50 yds. on both sides.
    The boolit seemed to go through in a straight line with an exit hole no more than an inch around from a .30 cal. and no meat loss other than the 1 inch hole in the offside shoulder.

    I did think the offside shoulder was bloodshot untill i got it home and ran a water hose over it.
    Turns out the blood was just trapped under the outer membrane over the meat and washed right out...no bloodshot meat.

    I've never recovered one of these boolits from game as i get complete pass throughs, but there seems to be no "visual" indication of break up of the boolit.

    A different alloy at the same bhn or even less bhn would probably react in a totally different way at those speeds hitting hard bone or even just the ribcage.
    I have hopes for #2 alloy either water dropped or heat treated at the same speeds, but haven't tested it yet.

    In both 30 and 35 cal., boolits from straight ww heat treated @ 465* and water dropped at 27 bhn and 2,450 fps. drive deep into red clay and gravel 100 yd. berms don't show much expansion, but hold together.
    The same boolits have dropped the six deer i've shot with them on the spot or within 50 yds. with no meat loss.

    On a side note, the one deer that showed the most internal damage was shot with a 30xcb boolit with it's very small meplat at 50 yds.
    Still no meat loss to speak of with a 1" exit hole in the offside shoulder, but the lungs were mush as if hit with a jacketed bullet. It must have caught the very bottom of the lungs as i also cut the top of the heart, but still, did a lot of damage.
    Lungs looked like they had been centered and shredded...no schrapnel on the inside meat and a straight line exit hole on the offside, so no boolit break up.
    Anyway, this has been "my" actual experience using boolits at the higher speeds of 24 to 2500 fps over the last few years....others may differ.

  9. #29
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    I am less concerned about fragmentation than shoughing. I believe that as a cast bullet mushrooms and expands in soft tissue the edges tend to slough and the nose mushrooms out again and again. The results show in the lesser weight of the recovered bullet. Having seen what was left of the 200 gr bullet in a cow elk I would not expect great penetration in an coastal brown bear, weighing twice the elks weight that the OP asked about. I would not use the same bullet for moose that I do for whitetail nor expect deadly results with it on heavier game. Yes natives kill them with the 22 lr., but our circumstances are usually different.
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  10. #30
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    for elk and bear, I would go with the noe 358009 280 grainer, you could push it at 2100-2200 and I imagine it would pass through all but the biggest of bears, I think lyman no 2 would do that without heat treating, and you would benefit with a bit of expansion.... but I will be the first to admit, I have had no dealings with bears, (although with my new 44 mag SBH bisley hunter doing so well, I would LOVE a good bear hunt!) but I think the above combo with a powder like reloader 15, or 4350, would be good. p.s, look up bruce b 's soft point method, that would be ideal in a situation like this. you could have your hard base, with a softer nose to give it a good THWACK! good luck!!!- Travis
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  11. #31
    thanks for the help guys. the "soft point" with a hard base sounds like a great idea. i will look into it.

  12. #32
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    white eagle's Avatar
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    best hunting bullet for .358 winny

    without a doubt the absolute best is a 260 gr custom Mountain Molds boolit
    hands down
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by willicd76 View Post
    thanks for the help guys. the "soft point" with a hard base sounds like a great idea. i will look into it.
    find it all here:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ntional-Moulds
    ..

    edit
    and it does work as advertised
    ..

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy
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    That was a cool read!

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    best hunting bullet for .358 winny
    without a doubt the absolute best is a 260 gr custom Mountain Molds boolit
    hands down
    Do you have a CAD drawing of this boolit from them? I just looked at their site and it isn't listed.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35 shooter View Post
    The noe 360200 usually weighs about 215gr. checked and lubed. It's a good one to try for speed with. The noe 360230 puts the smack down on white tails. I,ve pushed it to 2400fps. But usually shoot It at 2200 for woods hunting white tails.
    Both of those boolits can reach 24 to 2500fps. With the right powder.

    There are probably others, but these two are the ones I worked with for a bit of speed. I really like the 360009 noe 280gr. At 2200 fps. As an all around in my whelen.
    All three are very accurate 35 cal. boolits.
    Have the NOE 360009 clone of the Lyman 3589 (also have that one but haven't used yet). Casts at 290 grains with ww metal, checked and lubed, and positively wrecked the offside shoulder of the whitetail doe to which it was applied (didn't help the near-side ribs, either). Love it in my .35 Whelen (after throating for the long nose) and have yet to check it in my .358 Win (also throated for the long nose). The Whelen has 14" twist, and the .358 has 16" twist - we shall see.

    Love the NOE products! Have lighter .35 boolits, but will have to work down to those.
    Last edited by M99SavNut; 03-20-2018 at 11:18 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kobeinu View Post
    Do you have a CAD drawing of this boolit from them? I just looked at their site and it isn't listed.
    the beauty of that site is you get to design your own perfect bullet with the Online Bullet Design pulldown at the top left of the page.
    http://www.mountainmolds.com/
    ..

  18. #38
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I got a fair group out of an RCBS 35-250 .
    After exhausting all of the available data with no groups and an inside the bow floor plate release dumping rounds all over the bench I used a case full of I 4350 and had I not pitched a check would have had a 1.0 inch 5 shot group at a sultry 2100 fps .

    I have a 35 XCB , NOE 359-228 SP that has been reported to be a 2400 fps bullet .
    Have a 23" 1-14 " A&B barrel on a Santa Barbara 98'M action .


    I have pushed a naked cast 2600 fps but it was in a 1-14" 24" 222 with a 62 gr NOE 225-55 . I know some guys that have pushed a 150 30 cal to 3000 fps but that was in a custom rifle purpose built for pushing a purpose designed 30 cal 150 gr grease groove bullet 3000 fps .
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kobeinu View Post
    Do you have a CAD drawing of this boolit from them? I just looked at their site and it isn't listed.
    not where I can find it however it is very similar to the one Beerd has posted
    I literally dumped a whitetail this past season at 130 yds with it
    my son had a similar experience with it in his 35 Whelen
    at the shot the deer buckled and staggered
    it was a powder coated 20/1 gc'd boolit at about 2300 fps
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  20. #40
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    I'd already gone to the site and messed around with the build your own feature but I don't have any pointers other than weight. I was hoping to punch in the perimeters you used to get an idea of what it looked like.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
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