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Thread: best hunting bullet for .358 winny

  1. #1

    best hunting bullet for .358 winny

    looking for one bullet to do everything from deer to brown bear. any designs out there in 225gr weight range i could push to 2600 fps or so that wouldnt have a horrible BC and still get the job done?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master chutesnreloads's Avatar
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    For the price I'd start with the Lee 200 grain mold

  3. #3
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    The noe 360200 usually weighs about 215gr. checked and lubed. It's a good one to try for speed with. The noe 360230 puts the smack down on white tails. I,ve pushed it to 2400fps. But usually shoot It at 2200 for woods hunting white tails.
    Both of those boolits can reach 24 to 2500fps. With the right powder.

    There are probably others, but these two are the ones I worked with for a bit of speed. I really like the 360009 noe 280gr. At 2200 fps. As an all around in my whelen.
    All three are very accurate 35 cal. boolits.

  4. #4
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    If your after coastal brown bear I would not expect a jacketed bullet to work for both nor a cast. With both cast and jacketed you need to structure for performance. At minimum you need two. RCBS 200 or one of it's clones is good for deer up to lighter weight elk.
    https://www.loaddata.com/Cartridge/3...r-Bullets/2964

    Load data can't get a jacketed to 2600 fps let alone a cast. I would put a lot more study into this. I don't think you need 2600 but the fact that you want it says you need more education with cast.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by MT Gianni View Post
    If your after coastal brown bear I would not expect a jacketed bullet to work for both nor a cast. With both cast and jacketed you need to structure for performance. At minimum you need two. RCBS 200 or one of it's clones is good for deer up to lighter weight elk.
    https://www.loaddata.com/Cartridge/3...r-Bullets/2964

    Load data can't get a jacketed to 2600 fps let alone a cast. I would put a lot more study into this. I don't think you need 2600 but the fact that you want it says you need more education with cast.
    thats a lot of assumptions.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    (facepalm,,,,,)
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"


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  7. #7
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    Rick Hodges's Avatar
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    I'm going to give this one try. My manuals say maximum loads with 200gr. jacketed bullet is 2500 fps and 2300 with a 250 gr jacketed. 2600 with a cast boolit of 220+ grains sounds like a bridge too far. Most cast bullets don't respond well to those type of velocities even if you could push them that fast.
    What the other guys and I am trying to say is if you need a 220+ grain bullet at 2600 fps + you might want a bigger cartridge. Perhaps a Whelan?
    Last edited by Rick Hodges; 03-17-2018 at 08:56 PM.

  8. #8
    loading manuals are references NOT laws. there are known loads with a 225 jacketed bullet at 2600 fps plus. other calibers are pushed to 2600 with gas checked lead bullets. why would the .358 be different?

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Rick Hodges's Avatar
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    Look you asked a question, a number of people have given you their best answer...but you seem to know it all......have fun, don't hurt yourself. I'm not here to argue with you.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hodges View Post
    Look you asked a question, a number of people have given you their best answer...but you seem to know it all......have fun, don't hurt yourself. I'm not here to argue with you.
    no rick, you didnt give me much of anything. i asked for suggestions on molds. you felt compelled to jump on someone elses coat tails to simply state something cant be done, though you dont actually KNOW! its been done and published with jacketed bullets. its well documented if you look. im not sure why people seem to jump on those with low post counts to inflate their ego. being a rancher in texas, i have a LOT of target opportunities and inhave killed COUNTLESS animals woth the .357 mag, .444, and 45-70 with superb cast bullets provided by pete thorniley! i also have a "machine shop" and have built a LOT of custom rifles for hunting, match shooting, and LEO duty. dont presume you know anything about me from a low post count and simply answer the question i ask.....if you actually know what you are talking about. now again, i need suggestions for a good "high velocity" bullet mold to use in the .358 winchester from mouse to moose.
    simple enough???

  11. #11
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    When i referenced the boolits in my post above, those loads were worked up in a 35 whelen and not a .358.
    To get anywhere near those speeds of 24 to 2500 with any kind of accuracy i had to use slow for cal. powders like 4350 and slower with cast.

    In the .358 your going to be even more limited in case capacity with the slower powders probably neccesary for any kind of accuracy with cast at those kinds of speeds.
    Then the alloy is going to have to be matched to the speed so as not to blow up both the boolit and the deer or whatever.

    Have you loaded cast in your .358 before? 2600 fps. would be pushing the limits in even a 35 AI whelen with cast with any kind of accuracy.

    I'd try for 2000 to 2200 fps. in your .358 first. If you've already loaded cast to those levels succesfully, then by all means you can go for a bit more speed,,,,,but.....alloy, boolit fit, powder choice are going to get critical from there.

    Lots of the faster powders that work well with jacketed for speed, won't do near as well with cast lead alloys.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by 35 shooter View Post
    When i referenced the boolits in my post above, those loads were worked up in a 35 whelen and not a .358.
    To get anywhere near those speeds of 24 to 2500 with any kind of accuracy i had to use slow for cal. powders like 4350 and slower with cast.

    In the .358 your going to be even more limited in case capacity with the slower powders probably neccesary for any kind of accuracy with cast at those kinds of speeds.
    Then the alloy is going to have to be matched to the speed so as not to blow up both the boolit and the deer or whatever.

    Have you loaded cast in your .358 before? 2600 fps. would be pushing the limits in even a 35 AI whelen with cast with any kind of accuracy.

    I'd try for 2000 to 2200 fps. in your .358 first. If you've already loaded cast to those levels succesfully, then by all means you can go for a bit more speed,,,,,but.....alloy, boolit fit, powder choice are going to get critical from there.

    Lots of the faster powders that work well with jacketed for speed, won't do near as well with cast lead alloys.
    now thats useful information! is it the pressure of starting the bullet that deforms it to make velocities more difficult to reach with the cast vs jacketed bullets? in my .444 marlin, i loaded a 335gr hcgc bullet at 2200fps with sub moa accuracy. the 45-70 was a 435 hcgc at 1900 with moa accuracy. as i said, the bullets were purchased from pete thorniley and were of superb quality but i found them to match or exceed jacketed bullets across the board. why would it be different in the .358?

  13. #13
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    Well i see we were posting close together....i see you've loaded cast before and probably aware of some of the things i mentioned.
    If it were me loading for a .358 for speed, i'd probably go with the 200 gr. noe i mentioned before. it casts straight ww at .3605".

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by 35 shooter View Post
    Well i see we were posting close together....i see you've loaded cast before and probably aware of some of the things i mentioned.
    If it were me loading for a .358 for speed, i'd probably go with the 200 gr. noe i mentioned before. it casts straight ww at .3605".
    thanks. how do you think that bullet would do with the bigger animals ie. elk,moose, and bear?

  15. #15
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    Lol. we did it again...posting at the same time.

    Yes, i think most of the time pressure versus your alloy. To fast a start can do bad things trying to get that boolit started straight in the bore.
    Thus my mention of slow for cal. or capacity powders for a gentler send off.

    i've used straight ww oven heat treated @ 465* for 1 hr. and water dropped to 24 and 2500 fps. in the whelen with good success.
    It hits 27 bhn in 5 days and doesn't come apart in whitetails nor tear up meat, even when i hit a scalpula at 50 yds.
    Pretty much full speed impact.

  16. #16
    sounds like that would do quite nicely. i was wanting to push the velocity some simply to extend the range. in reality, 2400 vs 2600 wont mean much at 300yds wich would be my maximum distance with the cast bullets. i have shot hogs at 100 yds with my BFR in .454 at 1600 fps so im sure a rifle will be fully capable at 300yds at 2400-2500fps!

  17. #17
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    If i had to shoot a big bear with a 200 gr. 35 cal. boolit, i'd sure be trying to nail both shoulders with one shot.
    Much rather have a 358009 280 gr. for that(noe360009 is the one i have).

  18. #18
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    BTW, the lee 200gr 35 cal. rifle boolit which was mentioned in post #2 is supposed to be the same as my noe360200 if your looking for a cheaper mould. Both are just clones of the rcbs 359200 gr. the way i understand it.

    I have a rcbs 359200 and it pours ww at .3595". I like to size .360" for my rifle and the noe mould reaches that with ww easily.
    Don't know what the lee pours at, but just guessing at .359ish. Maybe someone else knows for sure on the lee.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    I loaded up some RCBS 35-200 FN that I had cast and water dropped. The rifle was a Browning BLR in .358 Win. BHN of 21. I fired them into a 55 gallon barrel at point-blank range at 2100 FPS and the nose disintegrated into multiple fragments and the bullet yawed sideways and left a barely discernible dent on the bottom of the barrel. Same result for 5 rounds. The recovered bullet weighed less than 40% of it's original weight.

    I considered this to be a complete failure and abandoned the project.

    Probably OK for deer, provided you don't mind significant meat loss.

    Completely unacceptable for larger game, in my estimation.

    YMMV.
    Missing the target is not the worst thing you can do.
    Not taking the shot is.

  20. #20
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    For elk and moose, I would recommend nothing under 260 gr. I wouldn't even consider the 200-220 gr. range. Off angle shots may not give the penetration you want. IF you are going to push beyond factory velocities for cast, better have a good rifle that will take the pressure.
    The 358009 at 2200 fps gives a point blank range of 225 yards. Velocity would need increased 300 fps to add any trajectory gain. Cast bullets at over 2200 fps impact velocity will be very destructive.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check