I have the 54 investarms and encountered the same thing with hollow base boolits, it actually seemed liked it kicks TWICE. I figured I was leaveing an air spsce between the powder and the actual base of boolit, but didn't mess with it much trying to correct the problem, because it shot the 435 grain great plain boolits so good, there was not much room there for improvement.
I do not blame the gun or caliber, I think the whole problem was on me.
I'm becoming more and more certain that I was flinching or letting up a little with the slight hang fires I was getting, which caused the butt to come off my shoulder a little. Didn't affect my accuracy much though. The REALs shot pretty well and I think I'll like them with a little more range time and tinkering with the load.
Lets see you are shooting a load that approximates a 50-95 Winchester in a 7 1/2 pound rifle and it KICKS. No LIE! In a 9 pound musket 65 grains of FFG and 500 grain Minnie was a normal load and soldiers complained that that kicked. That is the penalty for doubling the projectile weight in a gun with a poorly designed stock. The solution is either to add weight and reshape the cheekpiece or drop the powder charge. The T/C while a well made rifle was not meant to compete with a Sharps in power. I have a buddy we all call B and B, for black and blue, he insists that his load of 100 grains of FFG and a maxi ball in his 50 is the load for a real man. Not for me anyway.
Maybe I wasn't clear in my OP because a number of folks have made comments like this. I've owned this gun for 15+ years and have shot T/C Maxi Balls (430gr), Hornady GCs (425gr), and round balls with the same 85gr powder charge of T7 and not experienced recoil like I did the other night with the 380gr REALs. That's why I posted about the recoil; why is my felt recoil higher compared to larger bullets with the same powder charge?
I also noted that I was having ignition issues and getting slight hang fires on most shots. After some good conversations on here and with the guys at Track, I think the recoil problem is simply that I was letting up a bit after pulling the trigger and getting a bigger slap when the full charge ignited. To address my ignition issue, I'm going to experiment with wads (thanks Ed!!) and with real black powder (recommendation from Track).
I have to agree that the recoil from real black is different than the subs. Seems to be more of a shove than a kick. If I could get real BP in my area at the store I would use it exclusively but I recently bought a can of Pyrodex RS because my old can of 3f Goex is getting low. Good luck in figuring out your situation!
Update from the range this evening. These are only 25 yard groups (indoor range) from an informal rest. Edward graciously provided me with a handful of wads to test and the felt wads that I saturated with mink oil completely solved the hang fire issue. Recoil was obviously stiff but more like I had expected and experienced with other conicals in the past. I haven't ordered any BP yet so still shooting the FFG T7. Started with 75gr and the 3 shot group is so tight it looks like 2. I bumped up to 80gr, which raised my group a little but it wasn't quite as tight. Might have been me as I didn't feel great about the 3rd shot (left of bullseye) and think I yanked the trigger a bit.
Overall, I'm pretty happy with the result and feel like I have a good starting point for longer ranges outside. Thanks again to everyone and especially Edward for shipping the wads. Guess I need to buy a punch and few yards of felt now!
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It will be interesting to see an actual group at 50- 75 and 100 yards.
Well sure, obviously that will be the real test. However, I'm pretty stoked that I'm not getting a hang fire on half to two-thirds of my shots now with the felt wad and at least have a starting point.
The closest public outdoor range is about an hour drive, costs $20, and has the unfortunate limitation of only allowing shooting during daytime. Oh, and it's a complete madhouse... On the other hand, I'm a member of the indoor range 5 minutes from my door, I can help my wife get our 2.5 year old son to bed before I leave, and I only have to leave her with our 2 month daughter for an hour or so.
Plus, this was only my 3rd time shooting something I cast myself (2nd time with the REALs), so I just wanted to post a couple pics.
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trust me, the felt wad does not fix hang fires. Your nipple and how well it flows, does, affect hang fires.
i currently use pyrodex p and goex 2fg with the 250gr real and a lubed veg wad.
Ok...
Whether I "trust" a total stranger on a message board site or not, I'm just reporting my observations. Same gun, same batch of REALs, same nipple, same powder, same batch of CCI caps, and same range I had no hang fires last night on 10-12 shots whereas I was having them on every other shot or more last time.
You can continue to try to rain on my parade, but I'm not losing any sleep over it. In fact, I'm quite pleased with the result and will start shooting with a felt wad on top of my powder charge from now on.
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Juat giving you some advice bud. You dont want to run around saying that a wad fixed all your hang fires because then, you really might pick up a jack wagon along the way that wants to bust your chops lol. Dont be the autozone parts guy that sells you a k&n filter and tells you that you just gained 30 horse power.
Well this thread has come off the rails... Thanks for your advice.
Could it be that some, unaccounted for variable is responsible for the change in my rifle's performance? Sure it could...
Here's what I know:
Last time out, REALs with no wad - hang fires
PRBs - no hang fires
REALs with no wad - hang fires
Last night, addition of a wad without changing anything else eliminated the hang fires.
I've given up on trying to explain why a muzzleloader does or does not behave a certain way. For the cost of a hollow punch set and some felt, I'll happily use a wad from now on when shooting REALs because it worked.
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Uhhh this has nothing to do with brand. Just stating that a wad does not help hang fires and anyone with muzzleloader knowledge, knows that lol. WOW!
I use the wad simply because it helps seal the gasses a lot better and keeps the bullet flying tight.
Also I wasnt giving you a hard time from the beginning. But now that you've turned your nose into the air. I just might have to educate you.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |