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Thread: 54cal Lee REAL kicks like a mule!

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    54cal Lee REAL kicks like a mule!

    Hi all,

    New guy here and very new to casting. I shoot a Cabela's/Investarms in 54cal with a 1:48 twist. My go-to load for deer has always been a 535 round ball, mink oiled patch, and 85gr of FFG Triple 7. For elk I used the Hornady Great Plains conical with the same powder charge with pretty good success.

    I just got a 380gr Lee REAL mold and took my first batch to my indoor range last night to see how they flew. I used my same powder charge and the recoil nearly knocked me out of my chair!! I don't consider myself to be recoil sensitive but this was substantial and my shoulder is pretty beat up today. I also noticed that I seemed to have more slight hang fires than usual, which have always been exceedingly rare in my gun.

    What do you all think? What sort of powder charges are folks using to push these REALs? I'm thinking the REAL maybe is engaging the rifling better and therefore sealing better and creating higher pressure than the Great Plains. REALs seem to load quite a bit easier than the Great Plains. Not sure what to make of the hang fires...

    Appreciate any thoughts/advice on this.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    The hang fires makes it sound like air space. Might be some crud preventing the casting to go all the way down.
    For my .54s I use a patch crumpled up and placed under the casting. I also use 60gns rather than 80gns.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master


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    The Great Plains weigh 425 grs. I don't understand how the REAL could be recoiling harder.
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

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  4. #4
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    I don't understand it either. Before I bought the Accurate 55-430M mold for my 54, my go to was the 425gr Hornady GP conical with 85 gr of Goex 2F. The GP shot very well, but the Accurate conical shoots even better with the same 85 gr charge. I have never used T7 in it, and likely never will. If you are going to stick with Pyrodex I'd go with Select instead of T7. That's just my $02. Don't wanna bust your stock.

  5. #5
    Boolit Bub
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    Back when I was shooting a T/C Hawken I tried some bullets. Buffalo and Lee, they both kicked WAY more than a round ball. The round ball has killed enough deer and bear for me to never even think of using bullets again. I think it has something to do with the shape / height of the comb on the stock?
    "It's a good day for something"

  6. #6
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterAZ View Post
    I don't understand it either. Before I bought the Accurate 55-430M mold for my 54, my go to was the 425gr Hornady GP conical with 85 gr of Goex 2F. The GP shot very well, but the Accurate conical shoots even better with the same 85 gr charge. I have never used T7 in it, and likely never will. If you are going to stick with Pyrodex I'd go with Select instead of T7. That's just my $02. Don't wanna bust your stock.
    What's the reason for never using to T7? I've used it ever since I bought this smoke pole ~15 years ago and have had excellent results with it.

    I was also extremely confused by the extra felt recoil vs. the Hornady GP. Still am I suppose...

  7. #7
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by docone31 View Post
    The hang fires makes it sound like air space. Might be some crud preventing the casting to go all the way down.
    For my .54s I use a patch crumpled up and placed under the casting. I also use 60gns rather than 80gns.
    Just crumpling a patch huh? Never heard of that I guess. Similar to a wad? The tech at Lee said I should load the REAL directly onto the powder.

  8. #8
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by rudyc View Post
    Back when I was shooting a T/C Hawken I tried some bullets. Buffalo and Lee, they both kicked WAY more than a round ball. The round ball has killed enough deer and bear for me to never even think of using bullets again. I think it has something to do with the shape / height of the comb on the stock?
    For sure. I love love love shooting round balls and still use them exclusively for deer. I only use the GP when elk hunting and that is what I plan to use the REALs for this fall.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsayer View Post
    What's the reason for never using to T7? I've used it ever since I bought this smoke pole ~15 years ago and have had excellent results with it.

    I was also extremely confused by the extra felt recoil vs. the Hornady GP. Still am I suppose...
    I have never even tried T7. I guess the main reason I don't care to try it is that it has a reputation for leaving a nasty "crud ring'. Not saying it is doing that with your rifle, but it might be. I've had such good success with Goex 2F, that for me, there is no need to stop using it. I'm no purist mind you, but the real BP has outperformed any subs I have tried with one exception... Blackhorn 209. That is what I use in my T/C Inline and it is stellar for that usage (for me).

  10. #10
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterAZ View Post
    I have never even tried T7. I guess the main reason I don't care to try it is that it has a reputation for leaving a nasty "crud ring'. Not saying it is doing that with your rifle, but it might be. I've had such good success with Goex 2F, that for me, there is no need to stop using it. I'm no purist mind you, but the real BP has outperformed any subs I have tried with one exception... Blackhorn 209. That is what I use in my T/C Inline and it is stellar for that usage (for me).
    Interesting. Thanks. I'd never heard about T7 and a crud ring. I would also like to give Goex a try but haven't taken the leap. I was ready to try it a couple months ago because I knew my local Bass Pro had some in stock previously. When I went to buy some he said they were out of stock and didn't think they'd get it back. He told me they went out of business, which doesn't seem to be true...

  11. #11
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    there's a large weight difference 'tween a .535" lead ball @ 235 grains and a lead REAL @ 380 grains = more recoil. using T7 ain't helping, either ... try real bp 2f instead.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    If you think the recoil is bad with a 380 grain REAL......don't even try the heavier (425 grain +) Maxi-ball.

    If you use the BP substitutes, go with the finer granules, that will actually make it down to the nipple for more reliable ignition. I use Pyroxex "P" (pistol version) in all my BP firearms.......rifles and pistols. Just reduce the charge (volume) by 10 percent.

    In my 54 caliber Renegade, I use 90 grains of Pyrodex "P" with either, round ball or Maxi. The Maxi will kick like a lightweight 12 gauge that is loaded with a rifled slug and hit like one, too.

    Winelover

  13. #13
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    there's the bullet weight, and then there's the type of powder and it's charge weight, and then the reason for the load used. with a hefty payload weight, perhaps a lighter charge weight will both get the job done and be kinder in the matter of recoil. it will help to use real black powder instead of a smokeless substitute.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsayer View Post
    Just crumpling a patch huh? Never heard of that I guess. Similar to a wad? The tech at Lee said I should load the REAL directly onto the powder.
    Would have to say you got bad advice ,want proof shoot same load and use a poly/card/or veg wad under the REAL and then same boolit without wad ! I also shoot Great Plains in 45-50 cal with wad 100 percent of the time . Just sayin like (Home Depot clerks) Techs are often wrong !

  15. #15
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    I used a short .54 barrel on my Hawken one year and killed a little buck with it. Used a TC Maxi Hunter mold and yes, it did indeed kick hard. I was young and dumb and probably used way more Pyrodex than was necessary, especially given the ranges of most shots during our early season here.

    You shoot muzzle loaders on an indoor range? I hate indoor ranges with anything, but I'd think with a muzzle loader, you wouldn't be able to see after a couple of shots.

  16. #16
    Boolit Man
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    rfd and winelover
    Thanks for the replies and I may try some of your suggestions RE: powder types and loads, but I wasn't comparing the recoil of the REAL to my round balls but rather to the Hornady GPs, which are heavier than the REAL. That's the source of my confusion. I've been shooting the Hornady GPs for years and shot the T/C Maxi Balls prior to that before they stopped making them in the factory (I still have a couple boxes actually). I've used nothing but an 85gr load of T7 for at least a decade.

    Possible reasons I can come up with were:
    1) Better engagement of the rifling in REALs vs. GPs causing greater pressure.
    2) The slight hang fire causing me let up a bit after pulling the trigger and getting a harder slap.

    Thanks again for all the replies everyone!

  17. #17
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by richhodg66 View Post
    I used a short .54 barrel on my Hawken one year and killed a little buck with it. Used a TC Maxi Hunter mold and yes, it did indeed kick hard. I was young and dumb and probably used way more Pyrodex than was necessary, especially given the ranges of most shots during our early season here.

    You shoot muzzle loaders on an indoor range? I hate indoor ranges with anything, but I'd think with a muzzle loader, you wouldn't be able to see after a couple of shots.
    The indoor range has a great ventilation system. My smoke is completely cleared in just a couple seconds.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    I've used the same rifle as you for a few hunts back in the 80's with the T/C Maxi, it kicks! The stock finally split in the wrist right behind the tang and I sold it. A round Ball in that rifle is going to kill any animal you hit properly; be happy with it. imho

  19. #19
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward View Post
    Would have to say you got bad advice ,want proof shoot same load and use a poly/card/or veg wad under the REAL and then same boolit without wad ! I also shoot Great Plains in 45-50 cal with wad 100 percent of the time . Just sayin like (Home Depot clerks) Techs are often wrong !
    Cool. I'll order some wads today from Track and give them a try.
    Thanks!

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsayer View Post
    The slight hang fire causing me let up a bit after pulling the trigger and getting a harder slap.
    This is what I was thinking. You are shooting a good stout load though. 85g or 777 is the approximate equivalent to 100g of regular powder. Also maybe you were holding your rifle slightly different. You might want to try BlackMZ. I haven't tried it yet but hear good things about it.
    Aim small, miss small!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check