54cal Lee REAL kicks like a mule!

[triggerhappy243]

Jon, you just started shooting the reals................ and you are coming off as an expert??????????????????????????????????? You really are poking for another fight. You need to sit on a chest of ice.

[triggerhappy243]

you can brag when you can do this at 100 yards.................. OK?

[dsayer]

you can brag when you can do this at 100 yards.................. OK?

Nice group!
Can I ask what you're shooting?

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[waksupi]

Well this thread has come off the rails... Thanks for your advice.

Could it be that some, unaccounted for variable is responsible for the change in my rifle's performance? Sure it could...

Here's what I know:
Last time out, REALs with no wad - hang fires
PRBs - no hang fires
REALs with no wad - hang fires

Last night, addition of a wad without changing anything else eliminated the hang fires.

I've given up on trying to explain why a muzzleloader does or does not behave a certain way. For the cost of a hollow punch set and some felt, I'll happily use a wad from now on when shooting REALs because it worked.

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Hang fire is generally caused by breech fouling. Adding a wad would do nothing to cure this.

[dsayer]

Hang fire is generally caused by breech fouling. Adding a wad would do nothing to cure this.

I'm aware of what would generally cause a hang fire, but none of those variables seem to explain the outcome. If it were breech fouling, that could explain the difference in performance between nights possibly due to a lazy cleaning job. However, that doesn't explain why I wouldn't have hang fires with the round balls and a return of hang fires with the REALs that same evening because I didn't do anything other than a quick swab between groups. I also haven't changed the nipple.

Maybe this is a possible explaination... Is it possible that the REALs (which are obviously more narrow at the base) were insufficiently compressing the powder resulting in a bit of air in the charge and inconsistent ignition? Might this have been exacerbated by the fact that these are from my first ever batch of REALs and maybe they didn't have a perfect fill out? Would the addition of a 14mm wad (slightly overbore) allow better compression of the charge and help with ignition? Maybe, I honestly don't know or care much. I'm just happy that, for whatever reason, I didn't have a hang fire problem the other night.

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[FrontierMuzzleloading]

you can brag when you can do this at 100 yards.................. OK?

been there done that, with patched round ball and open sights.

[triggerhappy243]

.................................................. ....with you r.e.a.l.?????????????????

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Just started with reals again after years buddy. I've been using powerbelts, thors, round balls for the last handful of years. Only going back with the real due to law changes made this year.

[triggerhappy243]

[QUOTE=dsayer;4333953]Nice group!
Can I ask what you're shooting?

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dsayer, i shot this using t/c 435 gr. maxi-balls lubed with t/c bore butter,
from a t/c 54 cal. renegade with open sights at 100 yards. I swab between every shot.

I got this barrel from sam koger several years ago. When you cast your r.e.a.l.'s the ribs need to fill out so they are sharp and not rounded off. The R.E.A.L. does have it's own wants and needs.

P.S. dont let frontier irritate you into a tinkling match, He is still peeved Colo. will not let him hunt ELK with round ball anymore unless he switches to 54 cal.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

a little annoyed yes, but over it.

I'd lube the top of the maxi ball, the top band is what engraves the rifling once you pop it into the muzzle. Lots of lead going to build up over time doing that.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

And by the way, a huge ignition help is the hot shot nipple or better, the knight redhot nipple.

This is the hot shot,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSCs3CAHBK8

Your average factory style nipple. Notice the little strings of sparks and how much the flash bounces around where as with the hot shot, you get one big ball of clean burning frame directly into the patent breech?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5OOvz28Stw

[dsayer]

[QUOTE=triggerhappy243;4334137]

Nice group!
Can I ask what you're shooting?

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dsayer, i shot this using t/c 435 gr. maxi-balls lubed with t/c bore butter,
from a t/c 54 cal. renegade with open sights at 100 yards. I swab between every shot.

I got this barrel from sam koger several years ago. When you cast your r.e.a.l.'s the ribs need to fill out so they are sharp and not rounded off. The R.E.A.L. does have it's own wants and needs.

P.S. dont let frontier irritate you into a tinkling match, He is still peeved Colo. will not let him hunt ELK with round ball anymore unless he switches to 54 cal.

Cool. Thanks. My Dad and I used to shoot the 54cal Maxi Balls quite a bit before T/C quit making them for the masses. My little Sporterized rifle loves them and so does my Cabela's rifle with 1:48. I still have a couple boxes of Maxi Balls I bought from Cabela's that I'm clining to...

RE: the REALs. Yes, my second batch appeared to have filled out a bit better and the edges are sharper. I shot a few of them the other night also but was only comparing the first batch to limit the changed variables.

I was also going to ask about not lubing the top groove. Just something you figured out with your rifle over time?

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[triggerhappy243]

a little annoyed yes, but over it.

I'd lube the top of the maxi ball, the top band is what engraves the rifling once you pop it into the muzzle. Lots of lead going to build up over time doing that.

A LITTLE ANNOYED? REALLY? I saw all those posts on other forums. If you talked like that here, Admin would perma-ban you in a heart beat. You were throwing a childish temper tantrum. F-bombs included.

[triggerhappy243]

But back to the O.P. issue please.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

who are you? my momma? lol wow dude. And if i were throwing f bombs on any other forum than my own, they would have done a temp ban for language abuse.

I got my conical loads worked out now. A very big annoyance since i am a traditional hunter, but for getting an elk tag every 2- 3 years. Its a minor set back for me.

Im still challenging CPW on their rule change and just sent another off this morning challenging them on conical bullets that measure less than .500" being used for elk/moose.

So triggerhappy, can you explain how a Wad improves ignition? This seems to have been what spanned your temper tantrum as you'd say.

[dsayer]

And by the way, a huge ignition help is the hot shot nipple or better, the knight redhot nipple.

This is the hot shot,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSCs3CAHBK8

Your average factory style nipple. Notice the little strings of sparks and how much the flash bounces around where as with the hot shot, you get one big ball of clean burning frame directly into the patent breech?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5OOvz28Stw

Cool videos. Thanks for posting. I used to use a hot shot nipple but was having trouble finding them to match the threads on my rifle. I've been using the standard ones from Lyman for a few years with no ignition problems save for the other night.

Real BP, a hotter nipple, clean breech, etc are all things I realize would help with ignition problems but they still don't explain why I was having the issue only with the REALs and only that night.

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[FrontierMuzzleloading]

no problem! I still have to shoot some more videos with the redhot nipple. That nipple may actually be your best bet for helping with the hang fires.

When I first tried T7 with the reals, hang fires were a bad constant problem. I found that the nipples flash hole had a hard crust filling it. So hard, that using my nipple pick was impossible if I failed to pick the nipple clean after each shot. Now that I pick the hole clean after each shot, ignition has improved greatly. Some times you will run across a weak cap that sounds less than a toy cap gun, thats another issue but rare. A clean flowing nipple makes a world of difference. By clean flowing, I mean by design. Some of these nipples have a squarish bottom which causes the cap flash to actually bounce back up into our face. Knight & the Hot Shot, and even the Spitfire, have a great design to them that allows the cap flash to travel smoothly and exit the flash hole cleanly.

Sorry about the earlier mixup, I was just trying to help you out. Been doing this for a long time and its a great passion of mine.

[triggerhappy243]

who are you? my momma? lol wow dude. And if i were throwing f bombs on any other forum than my own, they would have done a temp ban for language abuse.

I got my conical loads worked out now. A very big annoyance since i am a traditional hunter, but for getting an elk tag every 2- 3 years. Its a minor set back for me.

Im still challenging CPW on their rule change and just sent another off this morning challenging them on conical bullets that measure less than .500" being used for elk/moose.

So triggerhappy, can you explain how a Wad improves ignition? This seems to have been what spanned your temper tantrum as you'd say.

************************************************** ***************

Frontier............. I am not the one throwing a temper tantrum. And I never said................. or mentioned using a fiber or felt wad with anything I shoot. Especially with the r.e.a.l. You are the one who has come unglued...... NOT ME!

And in regard to CPW............... YOU ARE STILL P.O'ED get over it. You are not going to change anything. Trust Ma, I know how CPW thinks.

And FYI, in case you failed to recall, there are and were muzzle loaders way back around the civil war that used conicals.................. for battle as well as hunting. If all you want to do is hunt with round ball, great. I am not knocking you for that. I admire that philosophy. But what people here can not stand is your arrogant and demeaning, and condescending attitude.

And for the records, I was really hoping your shot at that elk was at 90 yards instead of a mere 30 yards. I would have a totally different opinion of you.

[dsayer]

no problem! I still have to shoot some more videos with the redhot nipple. That nipple may actually be your best bet for helping with the hang fires.

When I first tried T7 with the reals, hang fires were a bad constant problem. I found that the nipples flash hole had a hard crust filling it. So hard, that using my nipple pick was impossible if I failed to pick the nipple clean after each shot. Now that I pick the hole clean after each shot, ignition has improved greatly. Some times you will run across a weak cap that sounds less than a toy cap gun, thats another issue but rare. A clean flowing nipple makes a world of difference. By clean flowing, I mean by design. Some of these nipples have a squarish bottom which causes the cap flash to actually bounce back up into our face. Knight & the Hot Shot, and even the Spitfire, have a great design to them that allows the cap flash to travel smoothly and exit the flash hole cleanly.

Sorry about the earlier mixup, I was just trying to help you out. Been doing this for a long time and its a great passion of mine.

Do they make those nipples with a 6-.75mm thread for Investarms rifles? Not seeing that as an option on my quick Google search. I did see today track has the hot shot nipple in stock for my rifle. I've been looking for an excuse to switch to real BP for a few years now anyway. Guess this is as good a reason as any.

RE: the thick crud you noticed with T7 + REALs. I tried 2 shots with 60gr of FFFG T7 just for kicks. The first shot fired beautifully but the second shot completely misfired. I removed the nipple and saw exactly what you're describing. I pulled the REAL from the barrel and called it a night at that point. I've noticed a little more crud shooting the REALs with FFG T7, but nothing substantial really.

And no worries about the back and forth earlier.

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[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Yes they do make them in the 6-.75 thread. Check out knights website as well. Their shipping prices are terrible the last time i checked, BUT, they may have made adjustments.

if not, theres this,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Knight-Red-...8AAOSw5VFWM-ZW