Part 2 ~ I finally made it to the Range!

[longbow]

I have not tried cork. Felt and cork are two under slug/ball wads I want to try, though so far I've found that the hard card wad columns has done best for me when I load anything but wad slugs. Oddly the wad slugs seem to do well where cutting petals off so I can use the cushion leg has not done well. I have to think it is at least partly due to less length/stability of the "wad" possibly resulting in tipping in the forcing cone and/or the cushion leg leaving the slug poorly at the muzzle if it is tipped or unevenly compressed. Speculation on my part of course. Good slo mo video would be good here!

Anyway, I have tried fiber wads but generally gotten poor results with them. I figured the fiber wad under a a 0.735" RB would be good but I got poor results. Maybe too soft? Cork and felt would be much firmer and Brenneke uses felt on their Brenneke Classic (very hard felt but felt).

I have to get an order together so will include felt and cork to try.

I'll also say that several of the fold crimps on the first range trip had opened slightly and several of the roll crimps were not pretty. It seems my roll crimper was a bit tight for the roll over of the Federal plastic. After a bit of machining the roll crimps now look good. Hasn't been a problem with any other hulls I've used. I don't think the type of crimp (roll or fold) matters as much as a good crimp. I didn't do myself any favours with the poor crimps. This trip yielded better results and hopefully the next, better again.

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

I made it to the range today myself. I have bought a new Mossberg 500 turkey model, with 20" barrel. I tried turkey loads, seemed to pattern good enough. I tried some 2 buck, and I was very surprised with a 100% pattern at 30 yards with a cylinder choke. I then tried slugs, and that's were things went bad. After wasting ammo at 50 yards, I wasted ammo at 25. I was shooting round ball loads that were accurate in multiple smooth bore guns, and rifled guns. Still, I could not keep shots on paper, at 25 yards. I do know the bore is less than perfect. Even with a cleaning rod, you can feel the tight and loose spots, and it is far from being smooth. I may have to call Mossberg about this. I did try a second ball load, with no success.

I also decided to dust off the accurate 73-770S mold that I've struggled with in the past. It's still a bear to cast with, even running a PID to keep metal temp perfect, and a hot plate to heat the mold. I used a 94/3/3 alloy that I've come to really like. While the slugs have cosmetic problems, they do all weigh within a few grains of each other. I also decided to try them without any lube at all. I had failed in the past pan lubing, I even tried to make a custom soft lube that turned into a mess. I don't have any liquid lube to try, so I just said screw it. I loaded 30 grains of Bluedot, (2) X12X gas seals, and a 1/2" fiber wad. I apparently lost my hard card wads. Slugs weighed about 775 grains. First I shot the ultra slug hunter with those round ball loads, and put 3 into a single hole at 50 yards. I adjusted the scope, and put another 3 into the bullseye. When I tried the 73-770S slugs, they shot a little low, but much more accurate than last time, and a tiny amount of leading in the first inch of barrel. I moved out to 100 yards, and missed 3 times. Eventually I figured out they were hitting WAY low, around 16" low. After adjusting the scope, I put my last 4 shots into a 4" group. After the first shot, the leading never grew. I shot a total of 20 un-lubed slugs, and about 10 un-lubed balls with no problems. I may try some Lee Alox, but I'm happy without. Pan lubing is a mess, and I never got a lube that didn't totally ruin accuracy. I had trouble keeping shots on paper at 50 yards before, and now I have a completely acceptable group at 100 yards. I'm going to try all hard card wads, different combos, and put more Bluedot under them next time. I also loaded a shell with 100 grains of Reloader 17 to see how it fits. Ed Hubel says this will put the slugs up around 1500 fps. Even with 34 grains of bluedot around 1150-1200 fps, I didn't think the recoil was all that bad. I also added weight to my ultra slug gun, so it is 10 pounds 6 ounces. It soaks up recoil nicely.

[bikerbeans]

Mega,

Good to hear the naked slugs fly well and didn't lead too badly. I have some "naked" slugs load but haven't tried them, maybe tomorrow.

I have to set my PID to 800F to get good slugs from my 73-700S mold. I use a bottom pour pot, hold the mold on an angle and let the lead hit the funnel part of the sprue plate. If I let the lead go straight into the cavity without hitting the sprue plate I get bad slugs.

The Hubel load is gonna get your attention, I ran this on the JBM recoil calculator.

10# shotgun 770g slug, 34g powder, 1,200 fps = 37.3 ft-lb recoil energy

10# gun, 770g slug, 100g powder, 1500 fps = 83.7 ft-lb recoil energy. This is in the recoil range of a 416 rigby or 458 win mag.

BB

[longbow]

Mega:

No personal experience here but it seems to me I've read that some Mossbergs are back bored and have pretty large bores. Might be worth checking if you don't whether it is or isn't back bored.

Were the round ball loads full bore or ball in shotcup? If in shotcup did you recover any wads? The wads should indicate if there's problems with oversize bore, rough bore or choke entry issue.

What is your round ball recipe?

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

I would say the slugs leaded less than factory rifled slugs. It's such a minor amount, it's barely worth saying. I never thought to run the lead stream on the plate, I always tried straight through. I also tried pressure pouring, and got mixed results. On one hand, some slugs look really good this way, on the other, the the nozzle freezes if I hold it on a little too long, and that ruins the process. I had tried at 750F at first, but I found I had to wait 20-30 seconds between pours to let the mold cool. I ran at 700F, and it was much better. The cosmetic issues I'm getting look like tiny pieces of lead get pulled off, either from opening the mold, hitting the towel, I'm not really sure. It seems they are good enough, but casting these is for sure is a struggle compared to smaller bullets. I'm casting with a bottom pour. I normally prefer aluminum molds, which this one is, but I have to think a brass or iron would be better. I could run it cooler, and the temp would be better distributed with the long waits between pours.

As for the Mossberg, 500's are not back-bored. I was trying full bore .735" balls. I tried to slug it with a ball, and it seems to be a little large, at .732"-.733". The thing is though that there are at least 2 different spots that are obviously looser than the rest. You can even see it in the light.

[longbow]

Okay, my Cooey runs 0.733" so you're not that much over stock. I just wondered if it might be backbored because that could affect wads, and slugs would tend to be loose if cast for "standard" bore. Somebody mentioned something about backbored barrels and I had it in my head they were Mossberg.

Those loose spots sound a little strange. It'll be hard to determine just how loose they are too as anything that gets to them has to go through the tight sections.

That could be what's causing grief too. I find that my slugs that cast to exactly 0.729" are quite inaccurate in my 0.733" cylinder bore but if I knurl up then size back to 0.733" they shoot pretty well... or at least have shot pretty well. After today's results (Part 3) I will be retesting knurled full bore slugs again as they did do well last time. I'm narrowing down what doesn't seem to work so retesting what did okay to good. I'm betting when I finish I'll be back to round balls!

Anyway, if your slug gets a chance to tip in the bore it won't take more than a thou or so, I don't think, to cause inaccuracy. I'd be talking to Mossberg about that barrel. If it isn't more than a thou or so you may be able to lap it out and even up the bore but it is work and the bore should be pretty much dead on diameter from end to end.

Longbow

[725]

Hope they work for you. A 20 ga. cork under my .702 ball sets everything in place for my weirdo 12 ga. RB load. I'm very confident with my scoped H&R Ultra and this load.

[longbow]

Your load isn't all that "weirdo"!

TRG3 posted his load using a 0.690" RB in a shotcup (can't remember make) with two opposing petals cut off and he says he gets deadly accuracy in an USH (IIRC but rifled gun for sure). Now that's a bit "weirdo" but it works for him!

[dsh1106]

Not sure where you will find a slug rifling kit these days. A guy sold one on this site a few years ago. I thought about it but really don;t like the slug or the mould so didn't bother.

Longbow

LB

I was in pursuit of the slug making kit again. I was out bid again for one of these kits, it wasn't even a complete kit and someone took the price to $200!!! Apparently my curiosity is going to cost me some serious money.

Scott

[longbow]

Yikes! I'm afraid I'd just stay curious... or get someone to bore the mould out to bore diameter.

I am too cheap for that!

Longbow

[missionary5155]

Greetings Longbow
Thank you for that photo of the table model Cross Sticks. That is far better than my idea. Pretty much I have been sitting in the dirt behind "regular cross sticks" for the last years as I could not come up with a better idea. But one advantage was to be practicing and testing the same way I sit on a high spot and wait on some critter to goof up.
Going to have to do a little wood work this summer and get out of the dirt and bugs.
Mike in Peru until June

[longbow]

Mike:

Thanks for the kind words.

I wanted a rest because I got tired of laying down with the forearm laying on a sand bag or two nd getting beat up with 12 slug recoil. I first thought of BP style cross sticks but wanted something stable for the shooting bench so figured "Why not anchor the feet to a base?" so out came the tools and scrap lumber! Nicer wood and a better carpenter could make this quite aesthetic. Mine is strictly utilitarian.

I made the base 18" square so it is big enough to use on the ground sitting or even sitting on a stool or in a chair with longer sticks. So far I have only used it on the shooting bench but am quite happy with it.

It is simple and it works which is good because I'm pretty simple too!

Longbow

[missionary5155]

Good morning Longbow
Thank you for being none complicated ! Simple stuff works just fine in our household. Thank you for that added 18" base figure. Gives me a good start point for figuring wood lengths... I can do this one !
Mike

[longbow]

Mike:

A point for your construction, I took my basic idea from BP cross sticks (and being too cheap to by cross sticks) and a portable take apart target frame a friend has. The base is one vertical (on edge) 2" x 4" x 18" long with the flat feet (on the flat 2" x 4" X 18" long) screwed to it at 90 degrees. That on edge 2" x 4" is drilled through over the feet. Then there is a clamp board drilled to match, also an on edge 2" x 4" x 18" long. The clamp board holds the vertical target posts (2" x 2") boards against the on edge board on the feet. The clamp screws are long 1/4" carriage bolts with wing nuts fed through both on edge 2" x 4"s. The 2" x 2"s are simply clamped and so can be moved sideways to accommodate different target widths. I replaced those 2" x 2" with my cross sticks.

So really my simple rest is a scaled down target frame with trapped sticks. I used 1" x 2" and 1" x 3" more or less (scrap lumber).

The words may not make a lot of sense. I can take some more pics if you'd like or put a sketch together for you to follow. If you are a carpenter at all though I am sure you will figure it out. Anyway, let me know if you want some more pics to make things clearer or a sketch, I'd be happy to help.

Longbow