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Thread: 308 cast loads

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    OK, got to the range last weekend. This is a hunting bullet, but my results were not good enough to me accuracy-wise - these were some of the common groups at 50 yards from a very good rest:





    Rest:



    So to "proof" to myself that my setup was OK, instead of my Savage 308 with a scope setup on 20x, I tried my 45acp pistol carabine (suppressed, of course!) with a plain vanilla 1x Red Dot at the same target/distance of 50 yards. Save for the two shots in the red area, most were grouped in a close group - better than I achieved with the 308!:






    I remember when I was trying the subsonic 308 rounds at 10x magnification I was getting smaller groups than these. This time, when I cleaned the rifle I noticed medium leading (which took a good number of patches/scrub to clean), so I am thinking that my bullet alloy (even though it is in the 20-ish hardness range after being water quenched), and a single coat of BLL (Ben's Liquid Lube) is not cutting it. So far all of my shooting has been with pistol cartridges and the 45-70 which hardly ever went past 1500fps, and a single light coat of BLL has been enough, so I feel I need to try better/different lube for this "close to 2000fps" loads.

    So right now I am inclined to:
    1) I don't (yet) have a lubrisizer, so desides BLL I also got White Label's Deluxe Liquid Xlox (45-45-10) on hand, so I can try two light coats of that next time.
    2) Back off velocity-wise and start again with subsonic loads making sure I got no leading, before increasing power and watching groups at 50 yards.

    Any other advice?

  2. #22
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    I use BLL from 1800 to 2600fps., but not with just 1 coat.
    I use 3 coats for rifle shooting with no problems. Of course I let each coat dry before applying the next.

    1 or 2 coats is for standard type handgun loads.

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks - I will try at least another coat from now on

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy
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    Well, finally make great progress with my 308 cast loads

    I skipped the Lee Factory Crimp die, seated the bullets to touch the rifling which resulted in a shorter overall length (too long before!), and I am using my new RCBS Luber with White Label's Blue lube. All shooting done from bench at 50 yards, same Savage model 10 police rifle, 20x scope, etc., with my form 1 45 cal suppressor.

    First group with subsonic loads, Ranch Dog hunting bullet (8.5gr Trailboss):



    Subsonic, NOE 30 XCB bullet (8.5gr Trailboss):



    Ranch Dog bullet, high power load (33gr Varget):



    NOE XCP bullet, high power load (33gr Varget):




    Of course, the barrel is now pretty warm, and although I waited a minute between rounds, the groups opened up with both bullets:






    I think I am ready to see how this works out at 100 yards

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    What alloy are you using? I tried BLL (2 & 3 coats) on soft alloy (GCd), fast powder and also had no luck. My guess is that the high fast pressure destroys the lube before it gets into the bore. I haven't had any luck with anything softer that ACWW. Hard, HV & accuracy seem to be pretty easy, but soft, MV & accuracy are eluding me. Same results in 308/30-30/BO.
    Whatever!

  6. #26
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    Powdercoat and don't try to size too big (.309) on the Ranchdog. I'm getting less than 2 inches at 100 yards with the same Boolit as a Plain Base. I'm at the "no more testing required" stage for this load.
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

  7. #27
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    My actual allow composition is a mix of hard cast from various vendors, some pure lead, tin, etc., but with water dropping from the mold I get about 20-22 on the Lee hardness tester. I got the barrel cleaned afterwards, and found what I felt was some light leading in there - took a good number of patches/brush to get cleaned out, so perhaps the hardness (even with the gas check and the improved lube) are not quite good enough . I think I will try a session of only the subsonic loads to see if I get no leading. I still have some powder coat ingredients which I can use to try for the higher power loads.

  8. #28
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    Your hardness is OK. Not sure what you are sizing to, or where you found the leading, please fill us in.
    I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
    My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
    The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
    How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
    Do you trust your casting thermometer?
    A few musings.

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have been sizing to .309" with a Lee push sizer. Perhaps I should try sizing to .310" instead?

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    310 works for my lr308, both uppers. FCD works fine (just remove the flare) but check your brass after using the M type expander, I'm using 2 thous. neck tension. I haven't used varget for cast, 335 & 4895 work for me but the boolits need to be hard for HV & accuracy as dropped into ice water. Even cold tap doesn't do it.I'm wanting to go shoot tomorrow, rain yesterday and today.
    Whatever!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master


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    Where in the barrel is the leading?

    Can you measure a boolit after loading and pulling it?
    I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
    My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
    The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
    How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
    Do you trust your casting thermometer?
    A few musings.

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    310 works for my lr308, both uppers. FCD works fine (just remove the flare) but check your brass after using the M type expander, I'm using 2 thous. neck tension. I haven't used varget for cast, 335 & 4895 work for me but the boolits need to be hard for HV & accuracy as dropped into ice water. Even cold tap doesn't do it.I'm wanting to go shoot tomorrow, rain yesterday and today.
    I am using a NOE neck expanding insert with my Lee die, and I am getting good neck tension and very consistent overall cartridge length on finished rounds, but definitely something to recheck.

    Quote Originally Posted by HangFireW8 View Post
    Where in the barrel is the leading?

    Can you measure a boolit after loading and pulling it?
    I don't have anything soft enough, so I might have to buy some pure lead plugs to measure the bore.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check