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Thread: 1911 FTF--alloy too soft? PC issue?

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hi,

    A few quick answers:

    The photos referenced were not posted by me.

    My issue is with the nose of the boolit slamming straight into the ramp in the frame and lodging there. The barrel does not seem to be part of the problem.

    I size the boolits to .4525, which is .001 over barrel size.

    I perform the plunk test on each and every round using the barrel.

    I know my 8 round mags do not have the dimple. I think the stock 7 rounders do, but I'll have to check when I get home.

    Thanks to Dan Cash for the offer! Must run now, but I'll PM you later.

    John

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    I always run a new gun with factory ball ammo before any handloads. This way I know the gun/mag works. Try some ball ammo. If that feeds then the mags are likely fine. I shoot coated range scrap, pretty soft. I don't have feeding issues in 5 diff 1911, 4 are bone stock.
    BTW the OAL you quote as spec is saami max. OAL is always bullet & bbl specific. I can not load that bullet to 1.260" in several of my 1911s.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
    NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Still MIA is the Cartridge OAL in reference to the barrel hood.
    .4525" seems a little large?
    Looking at the Lee illustrations, there is not a whole lot of difference between the nose profile of the TL452-230-2R and the notoriously difficult to feed 452-228-1R. It will be interesting to see the results of the test with a different nose form. If it would help, I could prepare some Lee 452-230-TC which seem to feed freely in many handguns. They would be about .452" though. This is not a high pressure round.

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bannister View Post
    Still MIA is the Cartridge OAL in reference to the barrel hood.
    .4525" seems a little large?
    Looking at the Lee illustrations, there is not a whole lot of difference between the nose profile of the TL452-230-2R and the notoriously difficult to feed 452-228-1R. It will be interesting to see the results of the test with a different nose form. If it would help, I could prepare some Lee 452-230-TC which seem to feed freely in many handguns. They would be about .452" though. This is not a high pressure round.
    Dusty,

    I must be misunderstanding you--maybe I'm just shaky on some of the terminology. The .4525" figure I gave is the diameter that I size the boolits to, but I think you are asking for something else. Can you explain what you mean by cartridge OAL in reference to the barrel hood?

    I appreciate your offer to make up some boolits for me, but I actually own the Lee 452-230-TC. I have loaded it for a different gun, but not for this 1911. I'll have to give it a try if the issues with my current boolit cannot be resolved.

    Thanks,

    John

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    I understand the bullets are sized to .4525" and I did comment that it seems a little large for a low pressure round that is giving feeding problems. I realize it is .001" larger than the groove diameter. The thing about the plunk test is two fold, in that the finished cartridge must fall freely into the chamber when the barrel is held muzzle down, and again drop freely when the barrel is held muzzle up. The second purpose of the plunk test is to verify that the base of the cartridge is flush or slightly below the top of the barrel hood when the barrel is held vertical. With absolutely no way to know what the correct cartridge over all length is for that bullet in that barrel, measurements against a book reference are just guess work.

    You may not be considering that the powder coating added to the bullet diameter as well as the nose diameter which might also interfere with chambering depending upon the taper or absence of taper of the lands from the chamber. The reason I suggested the truncated Cone style is that the slope of the nose of the bullet is less likely to hit the lands as soon as the RN bullets. Thank you for the reply. Dusty

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy
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    OK, I think I see now. The way I arrived at the OAL I use is by making a dummy round and seating the boolit progressively deeper until there was no longer any interference with the lands. I then subtracted .010" from that figure just to be safe. Therefore the cartridge goes into the barrel as far as it possibly can, but there is no excessive gap between the lands in the barrel and the drive bands on the boolit.

    In any case, as I mentioned earlier, this is not where I am experiencing a problem. The nose of the top round in the magazine slams into the ramp that is part of the frame and doesn't want to slide up the ramp.

    To answer someone else's question (I think it was someone else), my stock 7-round mags do indeed have the dimple on the follower, while my 8-round mags do not. I have not found any difference between the two as far as this problem is concerned. I will make up some rounds with the boolits seated about .010"-.015" deeper and see if that makes a difference. And of course I will buy a box of factory hardball and compare that as well.

    Thanks,

    John

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    The plunk test is irrelevant if the round isn't making it into the chamber. The rounds in question are getting jammed into the feed ramp. The rounds a probably a bit to long. Based upon the posts I'd assume the rounds making it into the chamber are not causing any issues.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
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    I shoot USPSA single stack,mostly 9mm and sometimes 45.Anyways I pc an HG 68 at 1.250 with any mag Wilson Chip McCormick or what ever i get ftf occasionally.When i shoot lubed my 1911s run 100%.My 9mm does the same.I think the pc melts and becomes sticky on the feed ramp.I switch from lube to pc and pc always gets ftf.When I shoot production class with my CZ and use pc it runs 100% The feed ramp on the CZ is like a Browning High Power,not as steep and the mag points the bullet right towards the center of the chamber.So try a differnt lube and see what happens.

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    You should try downloading the mags by 1 to see if that helps or not also. I am going to vote its the powder coating causing the problem coupled with new mag springs making the top a touch hard to strip. I betcha if you loaded some non PC rounds with everything else exactly the same, it'd run. Course... I may be wrong too.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master trixter's Avatar
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    I do not have a 1911, but do have a Springfield Armory XDm in 45acp. This is a double stack gun and I tried the Lee 452-200 1R and had issues at first. I kept shortening the OAL until it fed constantly. Then I tried the same boolit in 2R and it worked better, but I had to run it a little shorter than book COAL. I then switched to Lee TL452-200 SWC and like it a lot. I then tried the Lee 452-200 SWC (the H&G 68 clone), I like this one the best of all of them. Since I have started powder coating them with Eastwood Ford light blue, I like them even more. I have found that now I shoot a lot more before cleaning the barrel and it never looks fouled.
    Consider me a happy shooter.
    I have started using the same powder for 9mm too.

  11. #31
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by truckboss View Post
    I shoot USPSA single stack,mostly 9mm and sometimes 45.Anyways I pc an HG 68 at 1.250 with any mag Wilson Chip McCormick or what ever i get ftf occasionally.When i shoot lubed my 1911s run 100%.My 9mm does the same.I think the pc melts and becomes sticky on the feed ramp.I switch from lube to pc and pc always gets ftf.When I shoot production class with my CZ and use pc it runs 100% The feed ramp on the CZ is like a Browning High Power,not as steep and the mag points the bullet right towards the center of the chamber.So try a differnt lube and see what happens.
    How does the PC melt? You would have to get operating temps up well over 300deg & that just doesn't happen outside the chamber.
    I run a 1911/9 Springfield. The 1st rd nose dive can happen because of the fully loaded magazine. A RN helps get the bullet up the ramp where a flat point or SWC will more likely drive straight into the ramp & FTF. This is solved by buying mags that work in your gun & I have found that can vary with each individual gun when talking 1911 designs. I went through 4 diff mags brands in the 1911/9 to find a 10rd that worked 100% of the time.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
    NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy
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    OK, I've made up four different batches of ammo at 1.260, 1.255, 1.250 and 1.245. I'll be heading to the range this weekend sometime, and I'll let you know what happens.

    Thanks!

    John

  13. #33
    Boolit Master


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    IMHO feed ramps should not have any visible machine marks on them. Feel able or not.

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer in NH View Post
    IMHO feed ramps should not have any visible machine marks on them. Feel able or not.
    I might have to have another go at it with a slightly coarser grit. Am I likely to screw anything up by removing only enough metal to get rid of these light marks?

    Thanks,

    John

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Shoot the test loads first. One change at a time???

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bannister View Post
    Shoot the test loads first. One change at a time???
    Absolutely! I meant that I might do that later on. I should have specified that.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    +1 on the oal of the round my RO in 45acp will eat anything as long as you have the oal right.i shoot the 50/50 ww mix and it is just fine PC or lube sizes.good luck you will get there.I do agree with trying some hardball ammo just to make sure that the oal is the problem and not something else

  18. #38
    Boolit Buddy
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    I went to the range today to try out a few different batches of ammo, each with a different OAL. If you guessed that my FTF problem could be solved by a shorter OAL, you're a winner! As you may recall, I was originally having problems with a length of 1.265. Things were actually significantly better at 1.260, and the problem went away at 1.255. 1.250 and 1.245 worked great as well, but there was no improvement over 1.255. I am relieved that it turned out to be an easy fix.

    Thanks once more to all who offered suggestions!

    John

  19. #39
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Thank goodness you did not polish the feed ramp.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master


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    I know my Commander took several hundred rounds for everything to wear in. Glad your problem was a simple fix.

    I PC all my bullets now, except black powder ones, and won't be going back
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check