1911 FTF--alloy too soft? PC issue?

[jmac2112]

I recently bought a Springfield Armory Range Officer, .45 cal., 5" (in case the details matter). So far, I have fired nothing but powder coated, round-nose boolits cast from wheel weights. I have put about 500 rounds through it, and I am experiencing consistent FTF with the first round of a full magazine. This happens with both the stock 7 round mags and aftermarket 8 round mags. The situation is somewhat better if I slingshot the slide instead of releasing it with the slide release, but not by much. The top round usually nose dives into the ramp and stops dead, and the problem gets worse as the feed ramp gets dirtier.

I know that this sort of nose diving is a "feature" of 1911's with their single stack mags, but the round is supposed to bounce up and keep going into the chamber. I'm starting to wonder if maybe my alloy (straight wheel weights) is too soft, so that instead of continuing up the ramp, the boolit "smooshes" and develops a flat on the end that keeps it from moving any further.

It has also occurred to me that the powder coat might be causing more drag than a lubed lead or jacketed projectile. In any case, if anyone has any words of wisdom, lay it on me!

Thanks,

John

[DougGuy]

Push the front of the top round down in a fully loaded mag, depress the whole stack with it, let it loose and if it doesn't spring back up with authority, might look at getting different mags or an ISMI silicon chrome spring for yours.

COWW is not too soft.

[nicholst55]

For a 1911 not to feed RN bullets is somewhat uncommon. The cartridge OAL might be an issue - I would suspect that they're a bit short in this case, although I've been wrong before. Does the gun feed factory hardball?

[243winxb]

To soft alloy caused the same problem for me . I was testing almost pure lead with a lswc.

The nose got a flat spot where it contacted/stuck on the feed ramp.

[Bazoo]

Try lubing the top round with a smidge of gun oil smeared just on the bullet nose. That will rule out the pc having too much drag.

If its a used gun then you should start by changing the recoil spring. If its a new gun, it may have a rough feed ramp. Its easy enough to smooth a feed ramp, but it can be fouled up easy enough too. If its new, you could consider calling springfield. I've had a few dealings with them, and they've always done me right, and paid shipping both ways too.

Also, if its new, I'd run a couple hundred rounds jacketed ammo through it. It'll help break it in.

[reddog81]

PC should have less drag than lead. What bullet and what OAL?

I'd hate to recommend polishing the feed ramp if the feed ramp isn't a problem, but it might help if nothing else does.

[sigep1764]

Im with the guys above, go longer. I had the same issue just days ago with an LCP. Different animals, same issue. Seated it longer and voila, it feeds.

[jmac2112]

Thanks for the feedback so far! Let me address some of the points that you all have made:

I'm using the Lee TL452-230-2R mold. I've got the boolits seated as far out as my barrel will allow, with an OAL of 1.265 (1.275 is the "official" spec for .45 ACP).

These are the only boolits I've used so far, so I don't know how it behaves with factory hardball. Worth looking into, though.

This is a brand new gun, so the recoil spring is probably not the issue.

The feed ramp is smooth, but with some barely visible machining marks. I can't feel them with my fingernail, but I can see them. I've tried using some 1500 grit sandpaper followed by metal polish, which made the ramp a little shinier but did not solve the problem.

I will try lubing the tip of the top round, as suggested by Bazoo.

I will also test the mags as suggested by DougGuy.

243winnxb: Was it only the almost-pure-lead alloy that caused problems for you?

Bazoo suggested sending it back to Springfield, and I will probably do that if I can't resolve the problem soon. They will probably claim that the problem lies with my homemade ammo, but then again maybe they won't.

Again, thanks for all the feedback!

John

[jcren]

Play with oal a bit. Even just a few thou shorter will give a bit more sslide speed before the bullet hits the ramp and also get it a bit further out of the feed lips too. Every gun can be a bit of a puzzle in itself when using lead. A bit shorter won't cause pressure problems as long as you aren't loading mega magnum charges.

[243winxb]

Seat your bullets deeper, shorter COL. See if it helps.

Yes. Only the soft lead cased my problems.

I read on this forum where some people used pure lead for 45 acp, so i tried it to see if i would get leading in the barrel. Also tried Rotometals linotype to see if a too hard alloy would lead the barrel. Both did not lead.

Accuracy is better with harder alloys. IMO. Wheel weights with some linotype added, even for the 45 acp target loads.

[reddog81]

Try a little shorter OAL. 1.275 is not the "official" spec, it's the absolute maximum OAL for the cartridge.

There's no point in sending it back. They'll run some factory ammo through it and say everything works perfectly.

[mdi]

Spring for a box of factory ammo, 230 gr. FMJ. Shooting these will give you a good idea if the gun or the ammo is the problem. Trouble shooting should be done one step at a time, logically. Trying this and trying that without structure is just a WAG or "shotgun" method...

[Soundguy]

I too would try seating a hair shorter.. change the slide and spring geometry at point of contact.

Question. Does only the top round in a full mag do it?

If you drop the mags to 6/7 does it do it?

Lastly, make a few rounds, and if the lower COL doesn't help, dip lube the nose of the bullets in some alox or similar.

see what you get.

[jmac2112]

Good suggestions here! First I will try shortening the length a bit, since I can do that for free. I can easily go .010-.015 shorter before the drive top drive band goes below the end of the casing. I could go shorter, but then I would have space between the casing and the bullet (the nose diameter of this bullet is smaller than the drive band diameter). If I had to do this, would it cause any problems?

I'll bring some lube to the range to put on the end of the top round if necessary. Also, I haven't really checked to see what happens if I start with only 6, or even 5, rounds in the mag.

If that doesn't work, I'll run some factory hardball through it and see what happens.

Again, thanks for all the input!

John

[Dusty Bannister]

I have a bit of concern about the actual bullet that you are using. Some have excellent performance from the TL style bullets, and many do not. Absent from your information is the "sized to" bullet diameter. This is common for those that think the TL styles do not need to be sized at all. It is further complicated by adding to the bullet diameter with powder coating.

It is doubtful that the COWW alloy you are using is too soft. But is it possible that the PC you have added might be part of the interference created in chambering the loaded round. You comment that the bullet has some difficulty closing when using the slide release, and is slightly improved when you "slingshot" the slide. Perhaps that extra slide travel is forcing the cartridge into position. I suppose we are all assuming that the cartridge passes the plunk test, and you have dismounted the barrel to use the actual chamber for a loaded round gauge. But you are not telling anyone that either.

[rond]

Are the boolits dragging in the magazine? The correct way to chamber a round in a 1911 with the slide locked back is to pull the slide to the rear, allowing the slide lock to disengage, then release the slide. The 1911 does not have a slide release, it is a slide lock. Most 1911s need a few hundred rounds through them to break in.

[youngmman]

Try a different magazine that has the raised dimple toward the front of the follower. I have several 1911's from Springfield and had problems with different brands of magazines and the only ones that were consistently reliable had the dimple. I only use the Ed Brown 8 pack magazines or military issue clones now for all my 1911's since they are consistently reliable.

The above applies to a wide variety of cast bullets I cast from Lyman, H&G, Saeco, LBT and Accurate. The alloy used is 93/5/2 with a BHN of 14.

[CJR]

Deleted message.

[Soundguy]

I have a bit of concern about the actual bullet that you are using. Some have excellent performance from the TL style bullets, and many do not. Absent from your information is the "sized to" bullet diameter. This is common for those that think the TL styles do not need to be sized at all. It is further complicated by adding to the bullet diameter with powder coating.

It is doubtful that the COWW alloy you are using is too soft. But is it possible that the PC you have added might be part of the interference created in chambering the loaded round. You comment that the bullet has some difficulty closing when using the slide release, and is slightly improved when you "slingshot" the slide. Perhaps that extra slide travel is forcing the cartridge into position. I suppose we are all assuming that the cartridge passes the plunk test, and you have dismounted the barrel to use the actual chamber for a loaded round gauge. But you are not telling anyone that either.

agreed. is the bullet chambering by drop , fully into the barell?

[Dan Cash]

An important point was made about magazines. Are you using 8 round or 7 round mags? Years ago, I had a Springfield Loaded .45 that was an absolute jam-o-matic with anything but mill surp 7 round mags. It kind of worked with soome top tier 8 rounders.

If you would like to try a different bullet, PM me your postal address and I will send you some Accurate 225 grain TC bullets to try. They work flawlessly in all of the 8 or so 1911s in the stable here.
Dan