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Thread: Which slows down faster? 22 or 45?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Which slows down faster? 22 or 45?

    I set up a test to see which is has a better bc. The contenders are the 40 gr. 22 long rifle standard velocity against the Lee 255 RF 45 colt bullet. They were shot in open air at 325 yd over two cronographs to check both muzzle and downrange velocities. I will post results in a day or two.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Sounds like fun. Looking forward to seeing the results.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master


    tomme boy's Avatar
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    Faster lighter bullets slow down faster. They do not have the mass to maintain the momentum. Been proved about 10M times and counting

  4. #4
    Boolit Master corbinace's Avatar
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    I hope the Chrony is behind a steel plate

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    I have a lab radar chronograph and get numbers ( velocities) at 5 distances from every shot with it. I shoot a 535 grn postel over BP. Muzzle corrected was 1250 fps and the last 200yds was 1100 fps I believe, I'm working from memory here right now. The Lab Radar makes this testing easy and quick, with nothing but the target down range. It picks 38 cal rifle bullets up out to 200yds plus a little. I'm not sure how far it would pick up the 22lr bullet though.

  6. #6
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by corbinace View Post
    I hope the Chrony is behind a steel plate

    First thing I thought too when I saw the range!

  7. #7
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomme boy View Post
    Faster lighter bullets slow down faster. They do not have the mass to maintain the momentum. Been proved about 10M times and counting
    Pretty extreme oversimplification and not remotely true when discussing apples and oranges.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I have chronographed the 22 mag (34 gr winch. Supreme) at 100 yards. It held the same muzzle energy as a 22 LR at the muzzle. That means it lost around maybe 700-800 fps. That's a lot. But the 22 LR Velocitor only lost 320 fps at 100 yards. Stinger lost 525 fps.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Outer Rondacker's Avatar
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    325 yards. That 45lc is going to be aimed at the moon. HEHE This should be fun to see the results. Oh and I was also wondering if the crony was going to be protected some how.

  10. #10
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    fecmech's Avatar
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    Should be very similar as the BC's are about the same although the 255 Le RF is slightly higher .
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
    - C. S. Lewis

  11. #11
    Boolit Master mehavey's Avatar
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    BC: 22 cal 44gr LRN = 0.1
    BC: 45 cal 250 Keith = 0.2

    No rocket science needed beyond that.

  12. #12
    Boolit Man
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    What brand of ( ( new chrony are u gona replace the shot one with? ( i have replaced 2)

  13. #13
    Boolit Master wills's Avatar
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    There are several online ballistics calculators you can use. This one appears simple. Easier than blowing up chronographs.

    http://www.bergerbullets.com/ballistics/
    Have mercy.
    A haw, haw, haw, haw, a haw.
    A haw, haw, haw

  14. #14
    Boolit Bub
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    Messy bear will have a steel plate in front of his crony. Itís been used befor to figure out BCs on various projectiles. Lots of folks seem sure on this one. I will be waiting on the edge of my seat!!

  15. #15
    Boolit Bub
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    I’d give it about half of the front blade and let her fly with the 45

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverhome View Post
    Pretty extreme oversimplification and not remotely true when discussing apples and oranges.
    Must be new to shooting and have never shot long range have you?

  17. #17
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomme boy View Post
    Must be new to shooting and have never shot long range have you?
    This is adorable.

    Is the BC of a heavier bullet of whatever caliber ALWAYS higher than a lighter bullet of whatever caliber?
    NO!

    Yes weight obviously does factor in but to say in EVERY situation a heavier bullet will slow down less is as I said an oversimplification.
    Disagree? Then go long with a wadcutter and see how fast it slows down

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    I am very new to this, with most of my experience being pistols under 25yards. That said, I think that ballistic coefficient is based on measured values? And, it therefore incorporates all things like bullet mass, shape, material, and even time/distance to settle.

    Online calculators extrapolate between known data points?

    One question I do have is does the chronograph distinguish between vertical and horizontal velocity? If not, for a bullet with a rainbow trajectory do you attempt to accommodate gravitational acceleration and increase distance, or do that just go into the soup?

  19. #19
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    Tom Myers's Avatar
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    Perhaps a clarification of the terms used for the elements that define a bullet's ballistic coefficient would be of some value here.

    1.) The primary element that determines a Ballistic Coefficient is determined by the bullet profile or Form Factor (Coefficient of Form).
    The form factor can be influenced by several profile features such as Meplate diameter and shape (flat, round), Front Driving Band Diameter, Boat Tail profile, or lack
    of, and, in the case of Cast Bullets with turbulence causing grease grooves, Bearing Length.


    2.) The secondary element used in calculating a Ballistic Coefficient is the Bullet's Sectional Density. And, it is what it is.
    Sectional Density is simply, the bullet weight in pounds divided by the square of the bullet diameter, in inches.
    Sectional Density = grain weight / 7000 / dia. / dia.

    A Ballistic coefficient is calculated by dividing the Sectional Density by the Form Factor.

    So, in the simplest terms, a heavier bullet with the same nose profile will have a higher calculated BC than a lighter bullet with the same nose profile.

    So, when we make statements comparing bullet performance, unless a comparison of the bullet profiles is included within that statement, we are indeed, comparing apples to oranges.


    For those interested in the algorithms and calculations used in the the Precision G1 Ballistic Coefficient Estimator, below are links to:

    G1 Ballistic Coefficient Estimator Help Contents

    Specific help file pages:

    The Ogive Radius

    The Form Factor

    The Sectional Density

    The Ballistic Coefficient

    Hope this helps.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimB.. View Post
    One question I do have is does the chronograph distinguish between vertical and horizontal velocity? If not, for a bullet with a rainbow trajectory do you attempt to accommodate gravitational acceleration and increase distance, or do that just go into the soup?
    Jim,

    For bullets with a fairly flat trajectory, the gravitational deceleration and subsequent acceleration has almost no discernible effect on the trajectory calculations.

    When calculating "rainbow trajectories" the horizontal retardation, the gravitational deceleration in the beginning portion of the trajectory and the gravitational acceleration in the remaining portion of the trajectory are velocity vectors that are considered in the trajectory calculations.

    Most common, small arms, ballistic trajectory calculators use the "Flat Fire" algorithms in their calculations.

    Accurate, trajectory calculations, whether long or short ranges, where the angle of departure is significantly higher than small arms trajectories must utilize the vertical and horizontal velocity vectors to calculate accurate trajectory values.

    Years ago, when I first got into trajectory calculations, I wrote some code that utilized a military artillery method of calculations that, in addition to the vertical and horizontal velocity vectors, incorporated changes in air density as affected by altitude, barometric pressure, humidity and temperature into the trajectory calculations.

    The best practical use I found for the program was to use it in calculating the trajectory of my hunting arrows. Once a ballistic coefficient for a particular type of arrow was determined, extremely accurate trajectory calculations for long range shots could be made using that program. Whereas, use of the flat fire method, would require constant ballistic coefficient changes at different ranges.

    I also used the program to determine the maximum range and optimum angle of departure at a given muzzle velocity for various bullets from my firearms. I gained a new respect for knowing what existed down range from my firing point.

    Another use was to determine the maximum altitude a bullet would attain and the maximum velocity it would reach when falling back to earth.
    Needless to say, the data obtained was a real eye opener.
    Sadly, none of my computers will now run the those old programs that were written in the original Pascal compilers.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check