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Thread: Action deflection

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master

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    The Savage removeable bolt head allows several things to happen aiding accuracy. It does allow the bolt to center on the case head when chambered. I allows for better lug engagement with out lapping or machining lugs. It also allows for easy conversion to a different case head size. It does work but like the ARs bolt head it was a easy way to manufacturer bolts and bodies faster and easier.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
    nekshot's Avatar
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    just amazing that cheaper is better! I know the early savage 110's were not as accurate as those from the last 30 years. If I had the ability it would be tempting to change a Rem 700 bolt to a 2 piece design. I saw a action that a fellow took 1/2 inch off a Win 70 action and I believe a pin would have held the bolt on as well as welded. When the lugs are in place I am sure they don't wobble! (unless bubba did it)
    Look twice, shoot once.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    In the case of the Savage 'floating' bolt head, I would not go so far as to say it is a superior design. As noted above, it allows for flexibility in manufacturing and alleviates some alignment issues, but it's not a perfect design. I believe the primary reason Savage chose this design is for manufacturing purposes and flexibility, again as noted above.
    I note that none of the custom, precision actions utilize this bolt design, and I've no doubt those designers are more versed on the subject than I.
    Last edited by Hannibal; 03-12-2018 at 10:19 PM.

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty o View Post
    the weight is still on the action. there are some people ive seen actually rest the barrel on a bag, but that causes untold problems with accuracy.
    Shame on me. I was thinking of how we geezers rest our Stevens and Ballard single shots. (I haven't benched a bolt gun since grandson #1 was in short pants, and he's now in college.)

    No, I lie. Four or five years ago I had a Schmidt-Rubin on the bench, trying out some Eagan tapered boolits. But that's got a full length stock that makes contact out at the tip when properly bedded.
    Cognitive Dissident

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    For the opposite end of the discussion we might look at the M1 Carbine action.
    It is 'nominally' a two lug design but production tolerances allowed it to function a s a single lug action in service.

    That is the Action closed with only one of the two lugs in contact with the mating recess in the receiver. The discharging Cartridge put its Force on that asymmetric support and still passed the Proof Tests and Accuracy Acceptance Testing criteria.

    WW2, Korea, and Vietnam had many enemy combatants killed or wounded by the M1 Carbines and their M1A, M2, and M3 variants so I guess the 'single lug' did it s work adequately.

    Chev. William

  6. #26
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeMan View Post
    Per Hannibals original question:

    'SO. I posed the question, what happens to the finely trued receiver when you hang an 8 lb or more heavy/varmit floated barrel off one end of the action? The answer was, proper bedding will prevent action deflection. So. I asked, just how far from the recoil lug toward the muzzle end does the bedding need to extend to compensate for the barrel weight and prevent deflection?'

    Short answers are
    a) The muzzle of a heavy barrel does droop and stresses are transferred into the receiver which deforms the receiver, however minutely. The amount of deformation is in proportion to applied stress, and that proportion is dependent on the receiver material.
    b) The bedding would have to extend completely to the muzzle to totally eliminate bending stress.

    In reality, this is not significant in any reasonably designed and manufactured action, barrel, and stock assembly. What does matter to accuracy is uniformity from shot to shot. Uniformity is easier to achieve when all components are co-axial, perpendicular, etc. and have uniform section thickness so that stresses are evenly distributed. The success of this approach is evident in many free floated heavy barrels that repeatedly shoot tiny groups.

    The bottom line is that if the barrel weight deforms the receiver the same way every time, the barrel will deflect the same way in response to pressures and stresses of the cartridge firing and the bullet will exit the barrel uniformly. This applies to lighter weight barrels as well as heavy barrels, so applying the build techniques will pay off if the shooter has the knowledge and skills to shoot to the build's potential.

    Some of the best visuals for understanding the several factors involved in this can be found at http://varmintal.com. See the barrel harmonics and tuner pages. There is a mention of muzzle sag a bit less than halfway down the page on barrel tuner analysis.

    Another noteworthy finding came from the Houston Warehouse experiments. The late Felix Robbins mentioned the finding from Houston that there was an optimum barrel length for ultimate accuracy. I suspect it is related to the speed of sound in steel, the speed of the pressure pulse through the high pressure gas in the barrel, vibrations of the barrel, and the barrel harmonics per Varmint Al's discussion.

    BeeMan
    Very interesting. Thank you for the reply.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check