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Thread: Introducing: The .22 ladybug

  1. #161
    Boolit Master

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    My Friend with The Special Effects shop got a Carbide Replaceable Tip Cutoff tool and a pack of ten tips via Amazon yesterday so he 'covered' the tooling problem for me.
    Now to wait for Time Available on his lathe again.
    Chev. William

  2. #162
    Boolit Master
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    This morning I had some errands I needed to run, and the time to get them done, so I loaded the car up, and tossed the contender in .22 LB in the trunk as well.

    After going to the post office, and bringing some gas to my mother to keep the generator going while she waits for power to be restored after the hurricane last week, I set up on the 50 yard range, but I forgot to bring my rest, so I was elbow resting on the bench.

    I only had enough ammo loaded up to shoot 8 groups, but I was pretty pleased that including fliers, I still didn't have a group over 3/4"CTC at 50 yards.



    They're all the same load, which has proven to be pretty good. I'll work on other loads in the not too distant future, but consistency is a big part of what I want from the gun and cartridge, so the largest groups it shoots are as important to me as the smallest.
    Nozombies.com Practical Zombie Survival

    Collecting .32 molds. Please let me know if you have one you don't need, cause I might "need" it!

  3. #163
    Boolit Master

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    Sunday Afternoon I got some time on my friends Shop Lathe ad Tried out the Carbide tip Cutoff Tool on my Drill Blank material beginning mandrel with very disappointing results; Carbide doesn't seem to cut these 'M2' Drill Blanks well at all. All I got for three inserts was a grove about 1/16" deep on the .375" diameter blank. First Insert did not even 'polish the Blank before shattering. The second insert last e a little better, actually 'polishing the Surface before Shattering. The third insert actually did cut very slowly and survived the attempt without damage; but as I said it only very slowly cut to .062 inch depth before i gave up the attempt as I had to return home.

    chev. William

  4. #164
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    @Chev William
    I don't know the kind of precision you need on your parting , however, I use a Dremel type tool with a little diamond wheel. I cut carbide with them.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Traffer; 10-23-2018 at 04:22 AM.

  5. #165
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minuteshaver View Post
    for the amount of cost in dies, etc. why is it not simply to simply hit the 25acp case with a .223 die or hornet die?
    How? The .25ACP starts out .278" diameter by .615" long maximum dimensions.
    The .22 Hornet and .223 Are Bottleneck cartridges that are both longer and larger in diameter.

    In fact, I have Swaged Down .22 Hornet to .276"-.278" diameter for use as 'parent' to my .25 Cal Mildcats.

    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 10-21-2019 at 10:08 PM.

  6. #166
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffer View Post
    @Chev William
    I don't know the kind of precision you need on your parting , however, I use a Dremel type tool with a little diamond wheel. I cut carbide with them.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Good Idea, I will look into obtaining the diamond cut off wheels and arbor.
    Chev. William

  7. #167
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minuteshaver View Post
    for the amount of cost in dies, etc. why is it not simply to simply hit the 25acp case with a .223 die or hornet die?
    I'm not sure what you're asking. I have very little cost in my dies, just mostly time. those dies wouldn't get you anywhere close to the ladybug dimensions without at a minimum serious modifications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chev. William View Post
    How? The .25ACP starts out .278" diameter by .615" long maximum dimensions.
    The .22 Hornet and .223 Are Bottleneck cartridges that are both longer and larger in diameter.

    In fact, I have Swaged Down .22 Hornet to .276"-.278" diameter fo ruse as 'parent to my .25 Cal Mildcats.

    Chev. William
    Indeed...
    Nozombies.com Practical Zombie Survival

    Collecting .32 molds. Please let me know if you have one you don't need, cause I might "need" it!

  8. #168
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I've been away from Cast Boolits for quite a while; no real reason, I think I just got bored. Anyway on with the comment:

    I have a Stevens .44 shot that I bought with the express intent to rebarrel it to .32 S&W Long which hasn't happened yet, (boredom is insidious). I like the idea of this Ladybug cartridge for it since one of the reasons for procrastination is the fact that I will have to make a new extractor for whatever cartridge I go with, unless I make it a .38 WCF which is just a bit bigger than I want for a small game/ plinking rifle.

    I also have a tiny little Craftsman lathe that I need to learn how to operate.

    Robert

  9. #169
    Boolit Bub
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    has anybody talked to ch4d to see what a case forming die set would cost. i really like what you have done with this cartridge.

  10. #170
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk42gunner View Post
    I've been away from Cast Boolits for quite a while; no real reason, I think I just got bored. Anyway on with the comment:

    I have a Stevens .44 shot that I bought with the express intent to rebarrel it to .32 S&W Long which hasn't happened yet, (boredom is insidious). I like the idea of this Ladybug cartridge for it since one of the reasons for procrastination is the fact that I will have to make a new extractor for whatever cartridge I go with, unless I make it a .38 WCF which is just a bit bigger than I want for a small game/ plinking rifle.

    I also have a tiny little Craftsman lathe that I need to learn how to operate.

    Robert
    Robert,
    A few Questions:
    1. What Model/type is your Stevens .44 Shot Rifle?
    2. Is it one which is designed for "take down", or use of Interchangeable Barrels?

    If it is a "Take Down" type, the change is much easier.

    3. What size/model/material handling dimensions is your "tiny little Craftsman lathe?

    The material Handling dimensions of the Lathe will dictate what you can actually turn/machine using it without going to extreme custom tool extension/ modifications.
    chev. William

  11. #171
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by scotth View Post
    has anybody talked to ch4d to see what a case forming die set would cost. i really like what you have done with this cartridge.
    As to Myself Alone, I have not yet contacted CH4D, or any other Die Makers for a Full set of forming dies for any of my projects. I am Retired on what is increasingly limited Retirement Annuity payments form Social Security, Military Retirement, and VA Disability sources. My Taxes, Fuel, Food, and Utility charges and Fees keep outpacing any 'cost of living' increases I have received to date. So the 'left over funds' keep shrinking.

    Chev. William

  12. #172
    Boolit Bub
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    i have interest in both the ladybug and yours chev i just dont want too make my own dies sets if ch4d could make them it might bring more interest to these cartridges.

  13. #173
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chev. William View Post
    Robert,
    A few Questions:
    1. What Model/type is your Stevens .44 Shot Rifle?
    2. Is it one which is designed for "take down", or use of Interchangeable Barrels?

    If it is a "Take Down" type, the change is much easier.

    3. What size/model/material handling dimensions is your "tiny little Craftsman lathe?

    The material Handling dimensions of the Lathe will dictate what you can actually turn/machine using it without going to extreme custom tool extension/ modifications.
    chev. William
    Many small lathes have the capability of turning barrels. The limiting factor is the through hole in the chuck and spindle. I have a Harbor Freight 7x10" lathe with a 5/8 through hole. It is possible to ream this hole to 7/8 on this model, I just haven't done it yet.

  14. #174
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by scotth View Post
    i have interest in both the ladybug and yours chev i just dont want too make my own dies sets if ch4d could make them it might bring more interest to these cartridges.
    CH4D does advertise that they will make custom die sets upon special order; so You could ask for a Price Quote form them for appropriate forming die sets.
    I believe Lee Will also; but prefer a Production run size order unless it is only a modification to a normal production die, such as "opening" their .25ACP Carbide Sizing die to a larger Sizing diameter (I believe they also will do that on other calibers).
    Lee did make me a Long body, none crimping Seating die for my Long .25 Caliber Wildcats as a single custom order die made from a 'Standard' Seating/crimping die body with the crimp 'step' machined out.

    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 12-12-2018 at 06:17 PM.

  15. #175
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffer View Post
    Many small lathes have the capability of turning barrels. The limiting factor is the through hole in the chuck and spindle. I have a Harbor Freight 7x10" lathe with a 5/8 through hole. It is possible to ream this hole to 7/8 on this model, I just haven't done it yet.
    I agree.
    I have read, and Marveled at, modelers who have made 3/4" and 1" to the foot scale Live steam Locomotives using an EMCO "Unimat" Lathe and A Bunch of Custom home built tooling, jigs and holding fixtures to accomplish it, and one did it in a 'Closet' space in his home in Japan!
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 11-02-2018 at 12:32 PM.

  16. #176
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chev. William View Post
    Robert,
    A few Questions:
    1. What Model/type is your Stevens .44 Shot Rifle? I believe it is the Model 101, not 100% certain its not marked.
    2. Is it one which is designed for "take down", or use of Interchangeable Barrels?Yes the barrel is easily (now, I had to fix a dent that kept the barrel from freely sliding out) removable by way of the thumbscrew. As stated unless I want to stay with something based on the .44 WCF rim size, I will need to make a new extractor. Incidentally .444 Marlin cases cut to less than two inches work perfectly for improvised .44 shot cases. Two inch .410 (which is so rare as to be made of unobtainium in the U.S.) may work, but it is an awful tiny gun for "It may work" I'm not going to be the one that tries it.

    If it is a "Take Down" type, the change is much easier.

    3. What size/model/material handling dimensions is your "tiny little Craftsman lathe? It is a 6x18 I don't remember the exact model, I think it was actually made by Dunlap. It has no hole through the headstock and 18" is a bit shorter than the barrel I envision, the shot barrel is 26" and I would like to get somewhat close.

    The material Handling dimensions of the Lathe will dictate what you can actually turn/machine using it without going to extreme custom tool extension/ modifications.
    chev. William
    I just don't want to spend the money for a real lathe long enough to actually work on rifle barrels, no more than I would use it. I think one of my high school classmates has a lathe in his farm shop, if it comes down to it I will give him a call.

    Robert

  17. #177
    Boolit Master

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    A 6x18 inch lathe is definitely a 'small' lathe size but not 'tiny' as both the 'Unimat' (at 3x12") is small and Watchmaker lathes, at around 1-1/2x6", would be more likely 'tiny'.
    Note that if you can remove the tail-stock and mount a Full Steady Rest fitted with three roller tipped material guides, you could hold a Blank barrel in the Head-stock chuck and let the extra length extend past the tail end of your lathe, turning one end first then reversing the blank and turning the other end.
    This would leave two 'unturned stub ends' to be removed and the Finish Work to be done using hand tools and a barrel vice setup.
    By Finish Work, I am referring to reaming the chamber and crowning the muzzle, among other things.
    If you plan it correctly, you could make it an 'Insert Barrel Adapter' longer than your shot barrel and thread the Muzzle end for a clamping sleeve nut to hold it in your shot barrel without damage, perhaps using a cone faced Brass washer between nut and shot barrel muzzle to protect the Barrel Crown and Bore from being damaged in tightening the nut.

    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 11-03-2018 at 01:32 AM. Reason: correct typos.

  18. #178
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    John Taylor of Taylor Machine in WA now has my Ruger MKII pistol Receiver, my roughly 8 inch long LW 25ACP/6,35 Browning Barrel Blank Remanent, my .25ACP WS chamber Reamer (straight cylinder Body of .2795" diameter), an da Sample "Takeoff" MKI tapered Ruger barrel along with my MKII Bolt assembly.
    He is going to machine the Blank into a roughly 8" tapered Barrel to fit the Ruger Receiver; and also give me an estimate on converting the Bolt from RF to CF.

    So, my MKII Ruger Standard Auto Pistol is going to be a .25ACP Pistol eventually.

    I will need to obtain and Cut up some Beretta .25ACP magazines to make into magazines to fit the Ruger Handle and have the correct feed lips geometry to work with the Converted Bolt and receiver.
    It looks like Beretta 950 mags have a base cover tha tis too large for the Ruger handle bottom but might work other wise.
    There is a Beretta 'Bobcat' .25ACP mag that seems to have a smaller base cover that I may try also.
    It will take at least two Beretta 8-round mags to make one long enough to fit the Ruger Auto properly.

    Then there is the Form Block to make for forming the feed lips, and the Weld jig pieces to hold the bodies in alignment while welding them together again.
    The Weld jig will need to be made from Copper bar so that the inside weld bead is minimized and won't stick to the Copper bar.

    Perhaps a three layer Sandwich to ease removal?

    NOTE: the Bolts seem to be interchangeable between MKI, MKII, MKIII, and MKIV if you ignore the added 'features' of the later models. All are 3/4" OD minus clearance; as they slide easily in a 3/4" Drill Bushing.

    I think I can use aftermarket recoil spring assemblies with inter changeable springs as part of the Tuning to get proper functioning of the Completed Pistol but if needed I could add Tungsten Weight 'Washers' to the back of the bolt to add Reciprocating Mass to it. This will require drill and tap of the Bolt rear face.

    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 12-12-2018 at 06:19 PM.

  19. #179
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    John Taylor emailed me with a Progress Report:

    - My Bolt is completed as A CF conversion.
    - He made a new CF Firing Pin from Pre-hardened Spring Steel.
    - My .25ACP Barrel is machined.
    - he has assembled my .25ACP barrel-Ruger Receiver-CF bolt assembly onto his Grip frame and Test fired them!

    This is Very Good News for my Thanksgiving Holiday!

    Best Regards to All on this Thanksgiving 2018 Holiday!!!
    Chev. William

  20. #180
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    I received Back my converted Bolt with Receiver and fitted .25ACP 8-1/8" barrel along with my custom cylindrical .2794" diameter body Finish Chamber Reamer and my two 4-2/4" 'Takeoff' barrels Monday.

    Sadly, I learned from my Local Gun Shop and gunsmith that Current California Laws And Regulations define an Assembled Semi-Auto Pistol with a threaded Muzzle as an "Assault Weapon" subject to FELONY charges; so I intend to machine off the muzzle threads BEFORE assembling the pistol.

    I hope to get time on my friend's lathe this weekend if our schedules allow. My friend is currently working on a Series show production and has been getting 12 plus hour 'days' so far.

    Chev. William

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check