Introducing: The .22 ladybug

[Chev. William]

Nozombies,
It has been a while since you gave us an update on yur development projects, how about one?

As for my own projects, they have gone unattended for the summer as I have been getting back into 7-1/2 inch Gauge/ 2.5 inch to the foot scale model railroading again while my Special Effects Shop owner friend has been very busy in the movie Industry. It seems he is in great demand now that he is one of a very few Holding the qualifications he has in the Union and is licensed by both State and Federal bureaucrats to do his work.

Chev. William

[NoZombies]

Nozombies,
It has been a while sionce you gave us an update on yur development projects, how about one?

As for my own projects, they have gone unattended for the summer as I have been getting back into 7-1/2 inch Gauge/ 2.5 inch to the foot scale model railroading again while my Special Effects Shop owner friend has been very busy in the movie Industry. It seems he is in great demand now that he is one of a very few Holding the qualifications he has in the Union and is licensed by both State and Federal bureaucrats to do his work.

Chev. William

Hi Chev,

I wish I had more to share, but I've been pretty busy with other things... I can say that I've been playing with other powders and loads, and I hope to have a more substantial update at the end of November sometime as I get to wring out some test loads and verify a few things.

The ladybug repeater has accounted for a lot of squirrels in the yard over the last year and a half, and has done so admirably.

Thanks for bumping the thread, I haven't forgotten about it, I just haven't had enough 'play' time!

[Chev. William]

First rainfall of this Fall/Winter/Spring season here last night/this early morning left the Ground wet and the Air smelling of wet Rain. My Patio reloading shop is damp with splashed rain so I will be waiting to dry out again. At least my Patio 'tent' is still intact and no direct rain hit my things.
Primers and Propellants were all stored in Ammo cans with good sealing so not subject to dampness. In Process cases were in plastic MTM cartridge boxes but appear to still be dry as no direct rain hit them.

Otherwise the Air is 'Fresh and Clean and Sparkling' again as the residual fire smoke an dash has been washed from it again.
Dawn was sudden and bright as no residual clouds gave any predawn glow today.
"Oh what a Beautiful Morning . . ."!

Chev. william

[Cary Gunn]

The Ladybug is so dang neat and cute, I can't resist adding my words of praise, even though I'm several months late in so doing.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

[Huvius]

Would it be possible to swage a primer pocket into a 22WMR case similar in concept to the old balloon head cartridges of the 19thC?
I ask about the WMR just because I would expect the wall and brass thickness in the head and rim to be a bit more than a standard 22RF.

[Chev. William]

Would it be possible to swage a primer pocket into a 22WMR case similar in concept to the old balloon head cartridges of the 19thC?
I ask about the WMR just because I would expect the wall and brass thickness in the head and rim to be a bit more than a standard 22RF.

Theoretically, it may be possible: to reform fired .22WMR cases with suitable form tools to give a Small Primer pocket to the WMR case.
I believe it would take a base punch to form the pocket into a Form Die/punch run in from the Case mouth.

The base punch would be the diameter and height to match a Small Pistol or Rifle Primer e.g: ~0.175 inch diameter and ~0.131 inch high.

The Form Die/punch would be ~ 224 inch diameter with a pocket in the end ~0.205 inch diameter and ~0.146 inch deep to allow for ~0.015 thick case metal, with a length to reach down to the Base of the fired Case (~1.060 inch or slightly greater) with additional length to allow holding it in proper position and alignment against swaging forces..

There will also need to be provided a means to 'strip' the formed case from both tools as here may be forces involved retaining the formed case on the tools.

Keep in mind the 'rim' of the fired case is the same metal wall thickness as the rest o fthe cae and has a 'space' between the two 'walls' of ~0.015 inch that has the residue of the fired primer in it. This 'Rim' is NOT of sufficient mechanical strength to be used for this 'stripping' purpose with out risk if distortion.

The flash hole still will have to be made.

A possible means to 'strip' the formed case would be to introduce pressure air into the spaces involved via fine center holes in the Base punch and Form Die/punch Tools.

Chev. William

[Traffer]

Would it be possible to swage a primer pocket into a 22WMR case similar in concept to the old balloon head cartridges of the 19thC?
I ask about the WMR just because I would expect the wall and brass thickness in the head and rim to be a bit more than a standard 22RF.

I really don't think so. There is a huge difference in the thickness of centerfire based cartridges and a 22 wmr. The brass on a 22wmr is probably thinner than the primer walls.

[NoZombies]

I really don't think so. There is a huge difference in the thickness of centerfire based cartridges and a 22 wmr. The brass on a 22wmr is probably thinner than the primer walls.

I agree completely. The problem of already too thin brass, would be compounded by the need to anneal the head to move the metal without cracking it, and the fact that the extra material to hold the primer would have to come from the already very thin head leaving you with almost nothing holding the primer in place and the pressure from the load.

With that said, it might be possible to clean .22 WMR brass very well and seat a large pistol primer into the base with a deep crimp above the primer to hold it in place, (it would have to be deep enough to capture the primer's anvil, and the crimp would likely cause the case to fail) even then the CF pin would have to strike with enough force to overcome the resistance of both the rimfire brass, and the primer cup to ignite the priming compound. S06uch an arrangement would make the brass single use anyways, negating many of the benefits of the reloadability.

My statements are all theoretical and not based on experimentation, but the physics are such that I don't think I'd bother trying myself. I don't say that to discourage some enterprising soul from doing so, but if you're going to, go into the experiment with the knowledge that there are at least some pretty good reasons to expect limited success.

[Chev. William]

More thoughts on making .22WMR or .22WRF cases into 'Balloon Head' type reloadable cases.

1. The .015" thick base wall of the two RF cases would definitely thinned some more by the Drawing process needed to form the pocket from the 'Flat Disk" of the cartridge base.
2. There is also the possibility of pulling the rim in to provide metal to the drawn pocket.
3. A possible remedy would be to insert a 'drawn cup' of cartridge brass or Copper into the RF case before the pocket is formed, to reinforce the base and Pocket when it is formed.
4. The reinforcement might be preformed with a rim edge that reaches up the sides of the RF case some distance, perhaps .130" to .140" to aid in friction and sealing. Perhaps a suitable Gas Check might serve as the reinforcing cup.
5. Another thought is to add solder to the inside rim area to reinforce it against crushing.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

December 24th Evening, Christmas Eve, and a Wish for all to have a Very Merry Christmas and enjoy a Great New Year!

Chev. William

[Mk42gunner]

I'm back after taking a year off to take care of Mom after she had a stroke and issues with dementia. She finally got so bad I couldn't take care of her at home so now she is in a nursing home and doing quite well, relatively speaking.

Made some progress on my .22 Ladybug project-- I bought a thirty cal ammo can close to half full of once fired .25 ACP brass for $30.00. That should be enough brass to set me up for life.

If nothing else I have wanted a .25 ACP rifle for a long time.

Now to find the 10-22 take off brrel that I know I have hiding around here somewhere.

Robert

[KennyT]

Hey Nozombies,

Any updates to the .22 Ladybug project? Really interested in this wildcat, I have a couple of old bolt action .22s that I think would be easy conversions.

Kenny

[NoZombies]

Hey Nozombies,

Any updates to the .22 Ladybug project? Really interested in this wildcat, I have a couple of old bolt action .22s that I think would be easy conversions.

Kenny

Not as much progress as I'd like... Too many irons in the fire at the moment I'm afraid.

I'm hoping that around the end of March I might have a little more time for such fun projects!

[Alferd Packer]

That's a good thought, I'll see if I have some SP mag primers to try out.

The bullets stopped at various places in the bore, and pushed out with little force. I was testing in a 16.25" barrel. In a 7" barrel they work fine, but aren't moving very fast.

Have you thought of a piece of round lead shot fired with a primer.
The nearest size or the nearest larger size shot run in a sizing die to fit?
The round ball shot has always been lighter than a conical, but has been easier to blow clear of a barrel with just a primer.
Also the round ball is always accurate and strikes with a force all out of proportion to its light weight.

[KennyT]

Nozombies,

I understand to many irons in the fire. I am fixing to remove a couple my self so will have some spare time to fill. Can I correspond via PM with questions about the equipment you used and the process?
Thanks,

KennyT

[NoZombies]

Have you thought of a piece of round lead shot fired with a primer.
The nearest size or the nearest larger size shot run in a sizing die to fit?
The round ball shot has always been lighter than a conical, but has been easier to blow clear of a barrel with just a primer.
Also the round ball is always accurate and strikes with a force all out of proportion to its light weight.

Unfortunately I don't have a .225 RB mold. I've tried a few other things like airgun pellets, but nothing that really gave good results. The skirts tend to blow off the pellets leaving them with erratic flight and poor grouping. The little 25 grain WC's are accurate, and 1/2 grain of powder isn't gonna break the bank.

When I have more time for the project I might spend a little more time playing with other things though.

Nozombies,

I understand to many irons in the fire. I am fixing to remove a couple my self so will have some spare time to fill. Can I correspond via PM with questions about the equipment you used and the process?
Thanks,

KennyT

No problem, drop me a PM.

[303Guy]

More thoughts on making .22WMR or .22WRF cases into 'Balloon Head' type reloadable cases.

1. The .015" thick base wall of the two RF cases would definitely thinned some more by the Drawing process needed to form the pocket from the 'Flat Disk" of the cartridge base.
2. There is also the possibility of pulling the rim in to provide metal to the drawn pocket.
3. A possible remedy would be to insert a 'drawn cut' of cartridge brass or Copper into the RF case before the pocket is formed, to reinforce the base and Pocket when it is formed.
4. The reinforcement might be preformed with a rim edge that reaches up the sides of the RF case some distance, perhaps .130" to .140" to aid in friction and sealing. Perhaps a suitable Gas Check might serve as the reinforcing cup.
5. Another thought is to add solder to the inside rim area to reinforce it against crushing.

Chev. William

Shotgun primers should work. They are pretty much self contained, complete with rim. It should be easy enough to adapt a rimfire case to take them.

[Chev. William]

May 10th and nice weather out is hampered by Covid-19/SARS-CovD-2 'Sheltger in Place' edicts inmy State, County, and City imposed by the various Politicians but ignored by the same Politicians and their families and staffs.

My dogs and i sneak out to see the sun in my back yard but it just is not FREEDOM!

May all enjoy this Mother's Day Weekend,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Now June 7th, noted as a day of continuing protests made possible bu those who Fought their way across the beaches of Normandy back in 1944 and then continued to finally defeat Hitler's Regime and dream of World Conquest.

California is mostly still in 'lock-down' from the Edicts about Covis-19, not enforced against the night riots nor the day protests for some reason, yet being enforced in store that are open for business.

Chev. William

[deltaenterprizes]

Have you thought of a piece of round lead shot fired with a primer.
The nearest size or the nearest larger size shot run in a sizing die to fit?
The round ball shot has always been lighter than a conical, but has been easier to blow clear of a barrel with just a primer.
Also the round ball is always accurate and strikes with a force all out of proportion to its light weight.

I am using 22 cal pellets with a small pistol primer to test fire my Ladybug rifle, about as loud as a pellet rifle, not as quiet as a 22 Colibri that I was hoping for!