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Thread: Getting started with 45-70

  1. #21
    Boolit Master wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    Thanks Wills
    I fought a long battle with leading in this rifle - got it second hand and there were a couple tiny rust marks near the muzzle from long term storage - I freebored it to get rid of the worst - later bit the bullet and lopped two inches off it and re set the front sight - still was having problems - most of the boolit designs around at that time were cut for smokeless - I must have went through half a dozen molds - bore riders - postel designs - molds for a classic blackpowder rifle with tiny little lube grooves ahhhhhhg! Lube cookie under the boolit helped but the lube disc and two wads took a heap of powder space - was at a shoot in the hills and a feller was there selling gear - had a LEE 459-500- 3R mold - not long after they started listing it - soon as I saw that I grabbed it - finally someone has woke up what this boolit should look like - good big lube grooves and a pointy nose - I had been shooting a 500grain bore rider with a flat nose and hardly any lube aboard - scrubbing my barrel between shots - that LEE boolit took a full hundred yards off my sight setting - I read about the blow tube about the same time - first time I put all this together I got a first at 500yards at our local club's annual shoot - not a score that would rate high with you fellers but I was pleased and no cleaning between shots! So then I start to read all this guru stuff from the US saying that LEE boolit is uesless - wont shoot over 500yards - a whole bunch of negative feedback - whats with that was my question ?? I figured out later that they had a quality control issue on that mold and its likely a bunch of them went out undersized and under weight - I liked the design so much I bought two of those dodgy molds - wrote to LEE about it - they offered replacements no cost - but postage back woulda wiped out most of the benefit - I elected to keep them and salvage the handles out - after they got it fixed I got another two holer and using that now - so - a long road for me but when I finally got the lube problem sorted out - no more leading - I use a blow tube and I do think that is an art - something that looks absurdly simple but isnt
    There is always if i recall correctly either "leementing" the mold or, less perminently, "beagling" the mold. Just be sure to use a soft fat boolit, that will obdurate and prevent gas blow by.
    Last edited by wills; 03-13-2018 at 05:43 PM.
    Have mercy.
    A haw, haw, haw, haw, a haw.
    A haw, haw, haw

  2. #22
    Boolit Mold
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    Hi all, I am new here, and just getting started. I purchased a very nice Model 1873 Trapdoor Springfield (built in 1878). I want to start loading for it, and that is what brought me here. Why is it important to not have an air space in the cartridge. I've read this before. I am more than a little hesitant to load a cartridge stuffed full of powder in this old girl. Gun is in good condition, it had a broken firing pin when I got it. Bore is shiny except the last few inches at the muzzle are frosted. Rifling is fairly sharp. All I am looking to do is to shoot and enjoy.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    Dodge Man welcome.

    What happens when you have a wad over the powder with a air space between it and the bullet base is like a Hydraulic hammer that poshes the chamber wall out and you get what we call a rung chamber or a older term a walnut that makes a expanded cavity for better words that will show up better then a ring. It's the air between the wad and bullet base that creates the high pressure expanding the chamber wall that could burst a thin barrel if the gap gets to large.
    A full load of real black powder with slight compression and seat a wad and bullet tight on the powder and wad will work fine in your TD

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Lead pot View Post
    Dodge Man welcome.

    What happens when you have a wad over the powder with a air space between it and the bullet base is like a Hydraulic hammer that poshes the chamber wall out and you get what we call a rung chamber or a older term a walnut that makes a expanded cavity for better words that will show up better then a ring. It's the air between the wad and bullet base that creates the high pressure expanding the chamber wall that could burst a thin barrel if the gap gets to large.
    A full load of real black powder with slight compression and seat a wad and bullet tight on the powder and wad will work fine in your TD
    I’ve always heard that it was the wad propelled so fast into the base of the bullet that it bumps up the bullet diameter creating a ring.

    Do I have that right?

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

    rfd's Avatar
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    one thing with greasers is to use a newsprint wad or two 'tween bullet base and the real wad(s), to make sure the wad(s) don't go downrange with the bullet.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    Michael it's the air between the wad and the bullet that does the damage. There was a guy a few years ago here at the range I shoot at just got a new Sharps in the .45-120 caliber and he came over to where I was set up showing me his rifle and loads that had jacketed bullets. I asked him what for a load he was using and he said they were loaded with 3031 I cant remember the weight but the bullets were 350 gr Hornady flat point. When I picked a round up and shook it I didn't feel or hear the powder so I asked do you have a wad holding the powder down over the primer and he said yes I use a tablet backing wad, I said don't shoot it it will ring the chamber. What is that he asked and I said the gap between the wad and bullet base will expand the chamber. He gave me a twisted look and said it'll work fine. Well he came over after a couple rounds fired and asked if he could use my cleaning rod I asked what's going on and he said I have a stuck case.
    After palming my cleaning rod getting the stuck case out I showed him the bright band around the case were the base of the bullet would have been and I said you rung the chamber. Running a couple patches through I said look down the barrel and you will see the shadow in the chamber were the ring is he looked and said that is just a shadow or a smudge. He went back to the 100 yard line and I watched him load another round and shot it. I watched him palm the lever getting the breach to open and watched him with his pocket knife trying to get the case out. He did not come back to borrow the cleaning rod again he just packed up and left.
    He was just lucky he still has his fingers.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Lead pot View Post
    Michael it's the air between the wad and the bullet that does the damage. There was a guy a few years ago here at the range I shoot at just got a new Sharps in the .45-120 caliber and he came over to where I was set up showing me his rifle and loads that had jacketed bullets. I asked him what for a load he was using and he said they were loaded with 3031 I cant remember the weight but the bullets were 350 gr Hornady flat point. When I picked a round up and shook it I didn't feel or hear the powder so I asked do you have a wad holding the powder down over the primer and he said yes I use a tablet backing wad, I said don't shoot it it will ring the chamber. What is that he asked and I said the gap between the wad and bullet base will expand the chamber. He gave me a twisted look and said it'll work fine. Well he came over after a couple rounds fired and asked if he could use my cleaning rod I asked what's going on and he said I have a stuck case.
    After palming my cleaning rod getting the stuck case out I showed him the bright band around the case were the base of the bullet would have been and I said you rung the chamber. Running a couple patches through I said look down the barrel and you will see the shadow in the chamber were the ring is he looked and said that is just a shadow or a smudge. He went back to the 100 yard line and I watched him load another round and shot it. I watched him palm the lever getting the breach to open and watched him with his pocket knife trying to get the case out. He did not come back to borrow the cleaning rod again he just packed up and left.
    He was just lucky he still has his fingers.

    Probably ruined a beautiful rifle too

  8. #28
    Boolit Master

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    using wads with smokeless powders (double based in particular) is unnecessary, a big no-no, a prescription for disaster, and not allowed at the quigley match due to previous accidents.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by wills View Post
    There is always if i recall correctly either "leementing" the mold or, less perminently, "beagling" the mold. Just be sure to use a soft fat boolit, that will obdurate and prevent gas blow by.
    I had an older style mold that was fine - made good boolits - but I updated to a double cavity - it was undersize and underweight (453 dia x 465 grains from memory) - the LEE people were happy to refund but the return postage would have took most of it so I elected to salvage a pair of handles out of it - they fixed the problem - I used my old mold for a year or so and then got a new double holer that is spot on size and weight. They are a good company but you gotta expect a few glitches when they are selling molds for less than a quarter the cost of the next commercial option.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master wills's Avatar
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    There are lots of introductory articles on BPCR loading. Here is one

    http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/html/Resour...%20Loading.pdf

    Take a look at this thread

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...left-the-range

    https://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-resul...dick_trenk.htm

    http://www.buffalorifles.org/bpcr.html

    Look at the American Single Shot Rifle Association website.

    SPG lube
    http://www.blackpowderspg.com/

    Read some of Croft Barkers' books
    https://www.amazon.com/Books-Croft-B...Croft%20Barker
    Last edited by wills; 03-15-2018 at 11:53 PM.
    Have mercy.
    A haw, haw, haw, haw, a haw.
    A haw, haw, haw

  11. #31
    Black Powder 100%


    cajun shooter's Avatar
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    I will tell you this, a lot of members have thrown a lot at you for a beginning shooter. My advise is to try and find a BP shooter or group close and attend some shoots. You will find lasting friendships and better help.
    Reading is the second best thing but you have no one to correct you. The worst thing you can do is to buy your componets and head out to the range. BP loading and shooting is like daylight and dark when compared to smokeless powder. If you just do searches on this site, you will find tons of answers for all the questions you have.
    I feel like you should load bullets with lubes to start out and then take your time in deciding if you want to PP your bullets. Best of Luck and take Care, David
    Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat; 44 WCF filled to the top, 210 gr. bullet

  12. #32
    Boolit Master

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    without a doubt, it's always best to have a one-on-one local mentor who knows what they're doing with regards to bpc loading. it also helps to first get some knowledge about the different ways to load, the kinds of components required, and the different processes used to get the job done well, as all of that will apply to how you expect to use that cartridge. in the long run, every newbie usually comes to realize how simple and really easy the process is, and why it takes a book of words to describe it all. it's really a hands-on kinda thing.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check