good luck Roger, keep us informed
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good luck Roger, keep us informed
Went on a vacation / family visit out west and had to set aside this (and all other) projects for awhile. Now getting back at it and will hopefully have some results soon. Did get a chance to visit with forum member Banger Jim and his wife while out west.Originally Posted by copdills
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
I just won an E-bay bid for a Lyman .562 RB mould and a rifled barrel is on the way for my 11-87 20ga. I also have both the .575 and .600 Lee moulds and a break barrel 20 that's fixed modified. Three different wads I have on hand should work great through a modified choke using the .562 ball so I believe I'm just about ready for a little RB shooting 20ga. style. Thanks for all the help this thread has been for me guys. Gp
Good luck. Yeah the help on this site and in this thread in particular has been pearls beyond price.
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
gp, you're gonna appreciate that rifled barrel. and what you'll really appreciate is a great slug for it. Take a look a Uncle Dino's 20 ga plastic base. Proved to be serious hog medicine.
http://www.furycustombullets.com/web.../shotgun-slugs
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...340584-Hamicde
"My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
Leonard Ravenhill
Hogtamer: Thanks for the link to the plastic base slugs. The price seems very reasonable, I'll give them a try. I'll be looking for a slug barrel for my 12ga Beretta 391 Urika I've seen them on the net but they have been discontinued and are somewhat rare. Gp
So is the 6 point crimp on a 20 gauge round ball supposed to fold over so it is down the inside of the hull? It looks almost like a rolled edge. I used the 6 point crimp 34.5 grain Blue Dot and 3x the 28 gauge fiber wads for spacers plus the OP seal on Trap commander wads. Came right up to 7/16 from the end of the hull. Seemed perfect but the crimp folding over was never mentioned so I wasn't sure if it was correct.
If that fold over and tuck inside of the hull for the crimp is correct then I got me some RB 20 gauge slug shells. Two of them to be exact. Wanted to confirm that fold over and tuck inside was correct crimp before making more. If it is then I'll do enough to test a few with cylinder bore and rifled choke.
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
Greetings Roger, welcome back. Pressure is our friend. Higher pressures lead to more consistent, cleaner burning loads with that in mind if your fold crimp is a bit leaning inwards will only help with Higher pressures lead to more consistent, cleaner burning loads and that is one more reason that I usually like to start my loads with Magnum primers to achieve my goal of more consistent, cleaner burning load.
I usually don't switch primers for Magnum primers but if I feel the need for cleaner burn then I reduce the charge by 3 grains and then come up 1/2 grain up each load.
Your load of
34.5 gr Blue dot gave us 1629 fps for that .575RB, very good hunting load and fun to shoot ! !
Or
26 gr of Universal will deliver 1685 fps
Or
30 gr of Longshot will deliver 1677 fps
Or
28 gr Herco will deliver 1610 fps
Or
30 gr HS-6 will deliver 1552 fps
Above all have fun and teach your family to shoot with the milder loads too.
Can't wait to hear your part of the story, now ! !
Let the fun begin and I gave it a " 5 Star " rating and if you all help we will turn it into sticky, with God's Grace and Glory ! !
Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 06-01-2018 at 11:00 AM.
Roger: You know what I know about the crimp as I'm just getting started on this myself. Trying to avoid the crimp from folding in on it's self is the thought of my thread on trimming hulls for a better fit. I can see after a few replies that shortening the hull might not be the best option as my shotguns are 3" chamber and there is a jump to the forcing cone as is. My thought is that the crimp folding in enough to see an eighth to quarter of an inch would be a good thing but I personally wouldn't want more than that. Please correct me if I'm wrong Ajay, as I too would like to know. Thanks. Gp
I forgot to mention that my Lyman .562 mould arrived in yesterdays mail and the fit is perfect in my fixed modified smooth bore with three wads I have on hand. The 20ga. Trap Commander works especially well on the push test. Now, to get some time to get to the range. Gp
The wad was compressed 45 lbs. pressure. The crimp folded part seems to be locking the wad/ball down solidly. My store bought slugs are roll crimped and didn't look that different. Not quite as deep inset. I'm using the 34.5 grains of Blue Dot from a list of loads provided by Ajay.
I used a dowel marked at 7/16 as a depth gauge and wad/ball was right at 7/16 before the crimp so I would say the depth of that fold is about half that or between 3/16 and 1/4 inch deep set back. I can't see how a normal flat crimp would hold the wad in under pressure. There would be 7/16 inch of free space above the load. It almost seem on looking at it that the crimp has to fold in to hold the wad/ball down tight.
I did put a thin over card on top of the ball, had them and it seemed like it would make for greater consistency with the pressure around the edges.
If this is "right" then I have to wonder does anyone seal these somehow? Bees wax or something similar. This was another reason for the over card. Seal it.
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
Roger, please no over shot card as the RB would have to roll over it and causing the wad petals to get mangled ! !
Put a .125 nitro card in the wads base cavity instead if need be.
In the picture it does not look right the crimp caving in far too much, are you using the 3 inch hull?
Please try one load with 2 3/4 inch hull just to see ! !
Spruce down in the wad ! !
Ajay Madan
Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 06-01-2018 at 02:05 PM.
I may be loading the 3" hull I can check when home. I checked depth of wad & ball in that hull using dowel before crimping and it is right at 7/16 of an inch as per the dowel image in this post. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post4319090
I can add another .125 nitro card, just to see what it looks like. I think the RB mid line of the ball would still be below the top of the wad cup. Another .125 would use up about 1/2 of the space in that crimped shell. Still not level to crimp across. It would take about 2 more .125 cards to get load level with crimp. Hmmm that would be 1/4 inch. In other words the difference between 3" and 2 3/4" hulls! <glimmer of light at end of tunnel>
Man I'm glad I didn't run right out and fire them off!
Last edited by RogerDat; 06-01-2018 at 01:37 PM.
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
Pictures are so important after all we are playing with fire.
Please follow the picture.
You could put one .125 20 ga nitro card right after the red OP wad followed by .125-28 ga to fill the gap in the base cavity like in the picture.
Ajay
Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 06-01-2018 at 05:18 PM.
So does that 20 gauge nitro card go under the OP wad? I have the red version of the OP wad from Ballistic Products. I also have 1 nitro card @ 28 gauge .125 in the base and TWO nitro cards @ 28 gauge .125 in the wad cup itself.
As you can sort of see in the picture I posted of a prepped wad next to my "depressed" hull, that RB is still sitting pretty low in the cup.
Am almost certain I have some AA hulls that are 2 3/4 and will check fit in one of those, and maybe post a picture of a 3 nitro card stack in wad cup.
I will say those red OP wad/seals are a nice snug fit in the new hull. I don't think any powder can get past them.
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
In the sixth picture down with the ProChrono I currently have the middle stack of two cards under ball. I could go to the stack on the right which would be three cards under ball.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post4317409
My RB is slightly smaller so would sit a touch deeper. The example is a .575 and I'm loading a .562
I am using the 34.5 grain Blue Dot load from post #36 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post4339857
but it looks like I could also go up to 36.5 grains Blue Dot given in post #17 which would also lift the stack by a couple of grains of powder worth. Given that my RB is also lighter by a bit being closer to 266 grains rather than the 285 grains of the .575 RB I would think the couple extra grains in the load shouldn't be as much of an issue.
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
A 2 3/4 Federal hull the wad is almost even with the top of the hull when loaded. So too tall. Or the base of that hull doesn't allow for as deep seating of the wad.
Addendum.
Maybe this is a silly question but could I use the thin 20 gauge over cards between the Red OP wad and the 28 gauge nitro card in the base? Seems like the thin over card between OP wad and TC wad base nitro card would facilitate building a stack of just the right height. The cards are not super hard but I would think they wouldn't compress that much if I added a couple.
These fiber filler wads claim they are easy to split with finger nail on their seams to get custom stack heights. https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Fi...o/14C/20%20GA/
Last edited by RogerDat; 06-02-2018 at 06:12 AM. Reason: Added idea and possible product
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
One thing I'm not clear on is what the finished crimp should look like. Should crimp show the round ball as the yellow 20 gauge in the middle of the back row does? Or should it be a flat crimp as the red 12 gauge in the front is?
The yellow 20 gauge.
Left is 2 - .125 nitro cards under round ball in Fio 3 inch hull. Already determined to be sitting too deep
Middle is 3 - .125 nitro cards under round ball in Fio 3 inch hull. Is this acceptable crimp? Or do I need to make the stack even taller? Tall enough the crimp stays on top of the ball?
Right is in a Universal 2 3/4 inch hull. You can see the TC wad is too tall, comes all the way to top edge of hull. No crimp possible.
Red12 gauge is example for my question on what type of crimp is the final goal.
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
Good morning Roger, once you have the right Fold crimp depth set, leave that setting for next loading session.
Adding one more .125-28 ga nitro under the RB in wad will raise the RB in wad for the crimp to rest on top due to RB being smaller in size.
Every time you do develop newer loads try starting with fresh newer hulls, reuse hulls for HD buckshots etc.
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 06-02-2018 at 08:11 AM.
Thanks Ajay.
I'm not using a press or load-all, I am using a Lee hand kit. With shot loads if the column is right height then my pressing harder on the tool doesn't "push through" and fold the crimp into the hull. With the round ball I can push through and fold the crimp into the hull if I push too hard. So it sounds like I have to adjust my approach to pressing down the plunger for the crimp.
The used Universal 20 was just a 2 3/4 hull I had around so I used it to test fit the stack. Didn't have any new 2 3/4 hulls in 20 gauge. I would be reluctant to change hulls on a load unless the hulls were "equivalent". The 12 gauge hull is a shot shell. It was just handy so I used it to show the crimp.
Bottom line the crimp on a round ball load should look like the 12 gauge crimp (without the overshot card). Darn I thought it was supposed to look like a roll crimp just 6 pointed.
Lee Loader instructions:
Setting the crimp is Step 7 https://www.shootersforum.com/attach...tions-llp3.jpg
And Step 8 https://www.shootersforum.com/attach...tions-llp4.jpg
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
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