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Thread: Round ball in 20ga

  1. #41
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    Hello Roger, I'm happy for you, the RB in wad without the nitro card for this test backwards should be fiction fit and require 5 to 10 lbs pressure for accuracy through cyl bore but with the rifled choke you don't need to push through.


    Ajay Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots

  2. #42
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    Should be easy enough to check, same way I would check wad pressure with a Lee Loader kit. Push on it while it sits on a scale. That wad depth gauge is also yet to be made. And I'm planning on drilling out a wood block to use for a loading block.

    Some of what I read about wad pressure seemed to be saying that the crimp provided most of the pressure since if the wad was pressed down it was springy and would tend to push back up. Where if the crimp was level it was going to provide a consistent pressure. Trick was to have the stack and the crimp yield the desired pressure. Who says all the fun fiddling around gets done working up loads in brass?

    That is my one semi-concern. Lee hand loader deluxe kits have a crimp starter but they tend to be applied to used hulls. Where the crimp is already established. Hoping new hulls don't give me any grief. Was thinking if it seemed like it wasn't working I would try hitting hull mouth with blow dryer then pre-crimp while still hot. Wife's blow dryer can dry brass at 4 feet. Makes some of my power tools look wimpy in the current draw department.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

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  3. #43
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    Ajay

    love the pictures and the info, very nice !!! I searched through a lot of your posts looking for info on 12 gauge round ball , but most have all the pics disabled. any chance you have 12 gauge pics and info posted somewhere I could access?

    sorry for high jacking this thread .....

    Scott
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsh1106 View Post
    Ajay

    love the pictures and the info, very nice !!! I searched through a lot of your posts looking for info on 12 gauge round ball , but most have all the pics disabled. any chance you have 12 gauge pics and info posted somewhere I could access?

    sorry for high jacking this thread .....

    Scott
    Well not much of a hijack I already said 12 gauge was next on my list I do have the Lyman Sabot mold but I find the round ball & smooth bore combination interesting. And what is not to like about big chunk of lead going really fast in a cartridge you made for a fraction of the cost of store bought?
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

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  5. #45
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    Greetings Dsh and Roger,
    In Shotshell loading everything goes, components do not match or support each other for efficiency, the barrels are overbored, underbored and some done right.
    We are loading Nitro Express Loads that require perfection, each component needs to help the other.
    12 ga .678 RB in Trap Commander wad with ,125 nitro card below the RB, I feel the need to raise the RB a bit more perhaps another ,125 nitro or 1/16 more.



    Here in 20 ga but the picture on the left is how I find it very good.
    **--** You definitely want more than half the RB in wad:

    We work to perfection then the components fail us:


    If the powder is seeping, down the drain goes all our efforts.

    Here's a quick fix.


    Very important you learn to read pressure signs and always use newer Fiocchi hulls when load developing ! !


    We tried to do it right from bottom up but the moment I was banned due to jealousy as I was freely offering my help to all my brothers.
    Everything stopped , the multi cavity number of molds were neglected etc.


    Ajay Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots

  6. #46
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    AWESOME work Ajay !!!! the pictures and explanation are great!

    Now I have some work to do .....

    Thanks again
    Scott
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  7. #47
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    In my Lyman shot shell reloading they have a wad/hull/powder listing for their 525 grain. So I picked those wads and used hulls up. Just wondering do wad petal thickness vary that much? I really can't wait to get a depth gauge dowel and 20 gauge loading block drilled so I can make me some! After I check the fit of wad and ball through the barrel of course.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

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  8. #48
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    Yes Roger each wad petals has a different thickness, remember 5 to 10 lbs fiction fit for smooth bore.
    If its far too loose you miss out in accuracy, if its far too tight the pressure rises too much.



    Ajay Madan
    Super Blazing Sabots

  9. #49
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    Thank you Ajay. I've been quietly following along here as shotgun slugs and round ball loads are my newest interest. My test platforms are a 12ga. Stevens-Savage that is win-choke threaded and a couple of Rossi's a 20ga. and a 410 both with fixed modified chokes. All three are smooth bore. The question is just how much force is "Too much" when pushing test wads and their content through the barrel. The Trap Commander will push through the 20ga. modified but at a force that I would guess to be past 10lbs. I use a 50cal short starter when pushing this combo through It's even a touch tighter using the 28ga. nitro cards. The Winchester WAAF1 that is for heavy field loads pushes through with a little less than 10 lbs. pressure (guess by feel) and seems to be the best of the seven different wads I have on hand but will not accept a 28ga. nitro card in it's base. I would like to use the modified barrel if you think it will work as opening it up would probably cost as much as the shotgun did new. Thanks again for all the help you've been to us with this thread. Gp

  10. #50
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    Not going to fit. Too tight. closer to 20# press if not a touch more to push the wad and ball through. .575 when starting but down to .5735 after being forced through the bore in a TC wad. Not sure if I can find a sizer that will work. Maybe order a Lee custom?

    I'm thinking if ball was sized .573 or even .572 it would pass through smoothly with moderate force. Lee will make a custom sizer up to .575 I'm also considering a DC .562 RB mold. Might be loose but might not. Hoping someone has another idea... other wise I'll have to give this stuff a try.
    Last edited by RogerDat; 04-13-2018 at 01:16 AM.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat

  11. #51
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    Good morning Roger, please measure the barrel at muzzle OD, reason being I want to know if your barrel is thick or paper thin like some for your own safety.
    Report back, please !
    Ajay

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperBlazingSabots View Post
    Good morning Roger, please measure the barrel at muzzle OD, reason being I want to know if your barrel is thick or paper thin like some for your own safety.
    Report back, please !
    Ajay
    Will do. Was going to last night after the disappointment but had to get to bed. I should note that the wad and ball was tight all the way down the barrel. Not just at the cylinder bore choke. Which sort of makes sense cylinder bore being pretty much bore sized.

    Edit. I see where track of the wolf has a bag RB mold in .570 for $40 and Lyman makes one for $74 either one of these should fit and as I mentioned the ball is squished down to ~ .5735 once sized by being forced through the barrel in a wad. The wad petals have taken a beating in the process I might add.
    Last edited by RogerDat; 04-13-2018 at 11:49 AM.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat

  13. #53
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    OD: 0.793
    ID: 0.627 However it is really hard to measure the ID since I can't reach below the threaded area for the accu choke to measure the actual barrel but it appears that the barrel is thicker than the choke and barrel portion.

    Looking down through the cylinder bore choke insert I can see lip sticking out where the barrel is. Might make some problems trying to feed anything back down the barrel.

    I make the TC wad pedals to be .026 so adding .052 to the round ball diameter. .575 + .052 = .627 Or the same size as the choke ID which is slightly bigger than the barrel ID.

    .562 Lee RB mold + .052 TC wad petals is .614 which I think is too small.

    .570 Lyman single cavity or Track of the Wolf scissor style RB mold + .052 for the petals is .622 which should make it through the .627 choke with enough room to get through the barrel even though the barrel is a bit smaller than the choke. As long as it is tight enough. However the Lyman RB mold is about the same price as the Lyman 20 gauge foster slug. And the Lyman foster slug being made for 20 gauge should be expected to fit. If anything they have a reputation for being small.

    I see NOE has a .566 Pritchett smooth sided bullet. + .052 wad thickness = .618 but one of the more expensive options at $105

    Anyone have any input to add to this. Or ideas based on the measurements?
    Last edited by RogerDat; 04-14-2018 at 06:48 AM.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat

  14. #54
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    Good morning Roger, I think the best thing would be group buy a .568 inch RB Lee mold.
    You can put the barrel on th scale and push the RB in wad and see how much pressure you had to put to push it through on a weighing scale.
    Here is another thing you can try, get a socket set and try the OD of 10mm or 13/32 socket measure .550 now take clear scotch tape and wrap it 3 times, 4 times and measure now do your push through test in wad but no nitro card. Now you know the exact custom size you need for your gun.

    “Successful people are always looking for opportunities to help others.
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    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 04-14-2018 at 05:02 PM.

  15. #55
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    Opinions on the .566 Pritchett hollow base smooth sided bullet? Anyone ever tried one?
    The track of the wolf old style scissor mold is only .004 over .566 at .570 and runs $40 so not bad cost wise and pretty close size wise. If nothing else a .570 RB with thicker patch will fit a .58 caliber rifled musket.

    The group buy to create a Lee .566 round ball sounds good but I think will take awhile. Lee has a minimum number of orders, and while I think there would be interest I'm thinking that is a good eventual solution rather than short term.

    Maybe if I post a WTT or bullet exchange post I will be able to get some of the .570 or the others to try. If they fit then I'll know and can buy the mold.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

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  16. #56
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    Using tape around a 10mm socket to find the diameter that will fit I was all the way down at .560 - .561 before I could get the wad and socket through at any sort of moderate pressure. I think I will order the Lee .562 and give it a try. Worse case if the .562 doesn't fit then I have an $18 mold for the white elephant Christmas thing-a-ma-bob.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat

  17. #57
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    Good morning Roger, I'm happy to hear that, its a custom fit for your gun and T. Commander wad.
    I usually recommend buying from MidSouth shooters for a better price for the Lee double cavity mold.
    Lee .562 Double cavity mold for $17.85 http://www.jgsales.com/lee-double-ca...ml?language=fu
    $18.94 https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...ound-ball-mold


    What I failed to mention is that all my load development was done with two 20 ga rifled barrels ( Savage 220 with 22 inch barrel and a TC Pro Hunter 28 inch rifled barrel )

    In 12 ga I used Savage 210 with 24 inch rifled barrel.
    Savage 212 with 22 inch rifled barrel.
    TC Pro Hunter 28 inch rifled barrel and Remington 1100 with 24 inch rifled barrel and a smooth bore with Signature Poly choke.

    Wishing you the very best.

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    http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246[/url]
    http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!/[/url]
    -Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
    We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
    Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK
    -Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
    We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
    Last edited by SuperBlazingSabots; 04-16-2018 at 11:13 AM.

  18. #58
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    great informaion guys, I have learned more here in a very short time than all my years , Thanks again

  19. #59
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    My Lee .562 RB mold is due here Friday. I'm going to want to make at least a few right away to check actual fit. Now where is that fingers crossed smiley?

    YIPPEEE! It came a day early. At least according to the USPS tracking system.
    Last edited by RogerDat; 04-19-2018 at 03:04 PM.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat

  20. #60
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    Ding! Ding! Ding! and we have a winner. The .562 ball goes through about like loading a muzzle loader +/- a bit. As soon as I get a chance to mark a dowel as a depth gage to leave enough hull for crimping I'll be loading a couple of them to test. Probably the Blue Dot recipe since I have that on hand.

    I think I'm casting about .564 out of this .562 mold. I'm casting hot, right around 700* and using pure lead. I can't wait to make some go boom.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check