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Thread: 45-70 need some advice

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    52 grains of 3031 and a 405 grain bullet will kick. A LOT. Make that a whole lot.
    A much better load is 38.5 grains of 3031 and the same bullet for 1350 fps. Shoots all the way through deer, hogs, elk, or even buffalo if you choose. You'll thank me later.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Yes, that load will get your attention! Not max but it'll get your attention.

    When I started with my first .45-70 it was a converted Siamese Mauser and I was an idiot that wanted a big boom. I am also know as being frugal (cheap!) so I looked for the smallest powder charge that would provide the most velocity. My old Hornady book showed a load using IMR4227 under a 500 gr. "J" bullet that was pretty impressive. I used that load under the Lyman 457125 500 gr. RN. To say the recoil got my attention would be an understatement!! That fast powder resulted in more than somewhat uncomfortable sharp recoil!

    I rethought my position and decided to try the slowest powder listed which was IMR4320. What a difference in recoil for same or even better velocity! Much more of a push and not unpleasant at all. Subsequently I loaded down a bit after being beat sensless! I picked up a Marlin 1895 and kept loads at or below max in that... mostly below max.

    My favourite boolit became the Lyman 457124 385 gr. round nose. It shot well in both guns and less recoil than 405 or 500 gr.

    Longbow

    Yes, listen to the advice. There is little need to load really hot even in a Marlin or Ruger unless you are wanted to stop a charging Alaskan brown bear.

  3. #23
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    Texas by God's Avatar
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    I remember loading 405 gr Lymans to +/- 2000 fps in my P14 .450 Marlin. I also remember being glad when they were all shot up. I switched to 340gr Lees at 1400 and life was fun again.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy
    Bubba w/a 45/70's Avatar
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    Add one more voice to utilizing trapdoor loads for most shooting with the Marlin 1895, and still being able to get most things "done".

    The main difference with my reply is that I use a 350gr boolit or 300gr JHP....neither have failed me whenever called upon.
    Liberalism isn't just a disease anymore, it is a mental disorder.


    Sirach 2: 4-9

    Any questions.......http://http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?293211-Bubba-w-a-45-70-is-a-bonafied-straight-shooter
    Or here....http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...t-shooter-too!

  5. #25
    Boolit Master pmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Yes, that load will get your attention! Not max but it'll get your attention.

    When I started with my first .45-70 it was a converted Siamese Mauser and I was an idiot that wanted a big boom. I am also know as being frugal (cheap!) so I looked for the smallest powder charge that would provide the most velocity. My old Hornady book showed a load using IMR4227 under a 500 gr. "J" bullet that was pretty impressive. I used that load under the Lyman 457125 500 gr. RN. To say the recoil got my attention would be an understatement!! That fast powder resulted in more than somewhat uncomfortable sharp recoil!

    I rethought my position and decided to try the slowest powder listed which was IMR4320. What a difference in recoil for same or even better velocity! Much more of a push and not unpleasant at all. Subsequently I loaded down a bit after being beat sensless! I picked up a Marlin 1895 and kept loads at or below max in that... mostly below max.

    My favourite boolit became the Lyman 457124 385 gr. round nose. It shot well in both guns and less recoil than 405 or 500 gr.

    Longbow

    Yes, listen to the advice. There is little need to load really hot even in a Marlin or Ruger unless you are wanted to stop a charging Alaskan brown bear.
    Your story about 4227 sort of matches mine with 2400. From the first shot of 3031 I could tell the recoil was different too. Those pistol powders in a 45-70 produce a faster recoil pulse that you can feel on the shoulder. The OP sounds new to reloading and maybe doesn't have a lot choices on hand for powder. I bet if he searched Castboolits he could find people using 4895, 4064 and 3031 and these all have a similar burn rate.

    And it's just easier for a new guy to work with a powder that mostly fills the case. You can't double charge a 45-70 with medium speed rifle powder it won't hold that much.

    And besides it's a 45-70...don't 45 Colt your 45-70... .458 Lott factory 500 grain...now that's recoil, don't hold that like a AR15, it might give you a bloody nose.
    Oh great, another thread that makes me spend money.

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Hahahahaha! "Those pistol powders in a 45-70 produce a faster recoil pulse that you can feel on the shoulder." My shoulder felt like it got ripped off! The butt of the gun magically appeared about 8" rearward of where it started much faster than most of my shoulder did! Man that was wicked recoil. A sharp recoil pulse indeed! But it was cheap on powder...

    The change to 4320 cost me a lot more to shoot but it was sooooo much more pleasurable. That and adding a Pachmyr triple magnum recoil pad! And using a little less powder after the thrill of big bore recoil wore off. Those initial hot loaded sharp recoiling (200 rounds worth!) were shot with just the plastic butt plate and no padding. OUCH! It still hurts 40 years later.

    So, for the OP... choose your load and powder accordingly! If you like recoil you can get there from here! If not well then there's some good advice in this thread.

    .45-70 is a great caliber and I miss mine. I am thinking I have been without one for too long now.

    Longbow

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    I am planning to try Unique with the Lee 459-405-HB in my Marlin, looking for standard trapdoor level performance. Any suggestions here?
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master pmer's Avatar
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    Ouch! The first couple shots with the Lott was a learning experience for me. Luckily not as bad your mauser. In recoil my thumb on the trigger hand was coming back and hitting my nose. So it was bang..my nose hurt, I thought that's weird..Bang my nose hurt again ouch. Not mention the jolt on the shoulder. Then I started holding it more perpendicular to my shoulders and worked on stance. So that rifle is gone and I went back to the "comfort" of the 45-70. It was regulated for speed and reduced loads where way off of point of aim. Put a scope on it but that just looked wrong. 45-70 was much better suited for what I wanted to do.
    Oh great, another thread that makes me spend money.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I have been using Unique for cast in original single shots and use cast 322g Gould Express HP. I have used 2400, but settled on Unique years ago. In my 1895 Marlin and #1 &#3 Ruger, which
    are used for Deer hunting I'm shooting 300g JHP Hornady/ IMR-3031. I have used IMR-4198 which
    is also a good powder for 45/70. I don't use a lot of IMR-4064, used it in 220 Swift when I had one
    not the best for straight wall cartridges. I would get some 3031 or 4198, you can't go wrong with
    either, and both are useful for a wide range of cartridges. IMR-4198 is particularly useful for use
    with reduced loads in a lot of calibres.

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy
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    Yes, I use 4064 for heavy hunting loads. Also use 3031, not as much pressure. Going to try Trailboss

  11. #31
    Boolit Bub
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    I finally found some unique had to drive 45 min down the road for it. Also seen the load data for it in Lymans 48 and found a post on here from Lymans 47. Looks like 13.5gr start and 16.5 max for a 405 gr bullet should work for my 1895.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    I've had really good luck with Unique and cast bullets. I think you'll like the results.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Try 10 grs of unique with your 405 gr or you can try 34 to 38 grs of IMR 3031. I tried 4064 and wasn't happy with the results there was a lot of unburned powder left in the bore and the groups were poor. If you could find some SR 4759 would be a great powder to use. Get yourself a copy of the lyman cast bullet loading manual and have fun experimenting. You don't need to go any heavier than the trapdoor loading data to get good accuracy. The original velocity for a lead 405 gr slug is 1286 fps.

  14. #34
    Boolit Bub
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    I guess I’m the odd one but I didn’t have any luck with 3031 in my marlin. For harder loads I have had the best luck with varget under my 405 grain cast bullets. I don’t load them super hard, just the high side of a trapdoor load, which should be plenty for killing deer and hogs.. I hope to start hunting with it as soon as I get it dialed in. . I generally use 10-12 grains of unique for low powered plinking loads.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Fox View Post
    I guess I’m the odd one but I didn’t have any luck with 3031 in my marlin. For harder loads I have had the best luck with varget under my 405 grain cast bullets. I don’t load them super hard, just the high side of a trapdoor load, which should be plenty for killing deer and hogs.. I hope to start hunting with it as soon as I get it dialed in. . I generally use 10-12 grains of unique for low powered plinking loads.
    I've got a ton of powder on the bench and 3031 is one of them. I too have had less than stellar results with this powder with any bullet/boolit and gave up on it. It's the only powder in fifty years of reloading that stuck a bullet in the bore with a big wad of melted brown goo (the powder) behind it. That wasn't a measuring problem either, I dip each load and trickle up with this caliber. Even the other ones that fired produced mediocre results. Could I use it? Yes, but I found a lot of other powders that did much better.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    I really like Unique but I am loading a 460 grain WFN GC shooting from a TC Encore 45-70 the load is really accurate and fun to shoot hits hard. I am huge Unique fan for a wide variety of cartridges using both jacketed and cast bullets. I have yet to find a load using Unique in any of guns that is not consistent and accurate. Now these are light to medium level loads if the desire is too get towards top ends then it's a matter of what your gun likes.

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy
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    I made the mistake of loading a 405 gr boolit at 1800 fps for my marlin. Took me several trips to the range to shoot them. Most people that I let try it only shot one time and said no more. Recoil was extremely heavy!

  18. #38
    Boolit Buddy
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    13 gr unique with 405 gr boolit is about 1100 fps and very mild recoil. Not much noise. Very accurate and packs a punch.

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy
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    3031 is my go to powder for 45-70. I've always used it and never been disappointed. It is a proven powder for this caliber among others. If you load 4061, it's no problem if you go by the book loads, but I would not do max loads until you try a few. Remember the 45-70 can kill at both ends if you want it to.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I have used IMR-3031 since early 60s in several different cartridges. I have never had a epic failure with the powder turning into a greasy ball. I use IMR- 3031, 4198, 4895, 4064, 4350 & 4227 and have never had any powder trouble. I have seen powder do the grease ball if it has
    been stored in container that wasn't sealed were it could draw damp. Also in handloads that have
    been stored improperly.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check