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Thread: 45-70 need some advice

  1. #41
    Jacketed and cast powder loads are not interchangeable.

    Your Academy Sports carries some Hogdon powders. Have you just asked them if they can get 4198 for you?

    If not, surely you drive over to Raleigh from time to time just to get out. Hit up the Bass Pro or Cabela's.

  2. #42
    Boolit Man
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    4064 is pretty slow burning. I like to use a chart to get an idea of what kinds of powders I should be using...
    http://accurateshooter.net/pix/burnchart1601op.png

    Anyway, I have shot 4198 and Varget through my 45-70 and I much prefer Varget. Your 4064 is closer to Varget than 4198... For cast loads with a 405 grn boolit, I do 40-45 grn (I like 42) and it is stout but accurate. For GC loads with a 405 grn boolit, I go up to about 50 gn - if you go to max (54-55 grn), each grain above 50 seems to add a magnitude of recoil. Also, I found that about 52-53 and above was a compressed load with my boolits.

    The thing I found with 4198 is that it has a sharper recoil where as the slower powders have more of a push recoil...

  3. #43
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44Blam View Post
    4064 is pretty slow burning. I like to use a chart to get an idea of what kinds of powders I should be using...
    http://accurateshooter.net/pix/burnchart1601op.png

    Anyway, I have shot 4198 and Varget through my 45-70 and I much prefer Varget. Your 4064 is closer to Varget than 4198... For cast loads with a 405 grn boolit, I do 40-45 grn (I like 42) and it is stout but accurate. For GC loads with a 405 grn boolit, I go up to about 50 gn - if you go to max (54-55 grn), each grain above 50 seems to add a magnitude of recoil. Also, I found that about 52-53 and above was a compressed load with my boolits.

    The thing I found with 4198 is that it has a sharper recoil where as the slower powders have more of a push recoil...
    Forgot to mention - I do like the Trailboss loads. It is about 15-16 grn of trail boss to fill the case and ZERO recoil.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    just got a 45-70 marlin using lee 405gr pb mold 18gr of 2400 shoots well with light recoil 20 and 22gr are equally accurate at 25 yards trying them at 50 /100 yards on sunday to decide which is going to be my everyday load.nice round to load for not having little boolits to drop on the floor!

  5. #45
    Boolit Man
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    I used 4064 before because I had it ..... kicks good. I have switched to 3031 and just started loading Trailboss, Have not used the TrailBoss yet but the book show the pressure much lower

  6. #46
    Boolit Master
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    That 38.5 grain load of IMR 3031 should be a good starting point to an accuracy load. It is only a top level load for the Springfield so if looking for best accuracy, you can try a few grains both up and down. I was just shooting 38grs last week in a Winchester and getting great accuracy!

    Tho AA-5744 is pricier by the pound, it is no more expensive per shot than IMR-3031, and that makes AA-5744 well worth looking into. I have made great target loads for the 200 meter lever silhouette game with it.
    Here is a picture of an old Lyman mold for the big flat point bullet.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Chill Wills

  7. #47
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44Blam View Post
    Forgot to mention - I do like the Trailboss loads. It is about 15-16 grn of trail boss to fill the case and ZERO recoil.
    Oh - I mis-posted! Rereferenced my load data and cross-ref'd with my books. Should be 12-13 grn. Last Trailboss loads I ran were 13 grn.

  8. #48
    Boolit Master
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    Nevermind...thought location was Burlington ON

  9. #49
    Boolit Bub
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    I have shot Re7, 4198, 3031 with good results with 400 gr JFP Speer. Best with my 1895S and C Sharps was with 4198. I am trying some AA5744 and 420 gr cast

  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    My experience and recommendations are much like NSB's.
    I have more 45-70s than you can count on 2 hands.

    If you insist on loads of 1500 fps and up in a light rifle you are just trying to impress yourself wit a lot of recoil and you will probably not shoot it much.
    The best velocities are from 1000 to about 1300 fps. My rifles are all single shots. Two of them weigh 12 lbs and 1 weighs 10.5 lbs witout scopes. The extra weight allows the use of 500 grain cast bullets at 1200 fps without excessive recoil. These heavy bullets are generally the most accurate in a wide variety of rifles.
    In lighter rifles I use a lot of 300 grn cast bullets at 1100 to 1300 fps.

    I tend to view the 45-70 like a very large .22lr plinker. I do not hunt much with It but I shoot It alot.
    In order to develop reasonable operating combustion pressures you need a much faster powder than 4064 and 3031.
    A large number of my loads are 13 grn of Unique with 300 grn bullets. I have burned up 2 lbs of Unique this way. Do not use Unique unless you have a 100% fool proof way to avoid double charges.

    Other good powders are 2400, 4227, 5744 and 4759.
    SR4759 works exceptionally well with heavier bullets and long barrels.
    My best groups with tang sight BPCR. rifles run right at 1" at 100 meters.
    Last edited by EDG; 03-21-2018 at 06:58 PM.
    EDG

  11. #51
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Haven't loaded 45-70 since Reagan was president but there's a passing thought I'd like to throw out here. Everybody knows that a .444 is overkill for bambis so why load a 45-70 with a heavier boolit and lots of feet per second?

    Here's what I'm thinking...
    Load the 45-70 with a little lighter boolit instead of slam dunkin' yourself. Like maybe something under 300 grains. A gas checked wide nose. Then work up the velocity to as fast and flat shooting as fits your hunting situation. If you more or less duplicate the performance of a .44 mag revolver then you have more than enough. Not saying that will make deer any deader, just that it could be a more practical approach to putting them in the freezer. For hogs, heavy boolit. Bambis, lighter boolit.

    That's almost enough to make me wisht I'd bought one of those 45-70 Handi's while they was floating around.

  12. #52
    Boolit Bub
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    So shot a couple of the 405 I had loaded with 54 gr of 4064 and they were a little stout haven't tried the unique yet but found some 4198 and plan to load some with it. Now just for fun I'd like to load some 500 gr bullets I see acme sells some that are coated most of the Lyman load info pushes the bullets way out past the 2.55 range to cycle does anybody have any load info that may work and be safe for these?

  13. #53
    Boolit Bub
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    On a side note not worried too much about recoil just safety. Honestly I shoot 7mag with 195gr that kick harder than the 405 gr did in my Marlin although Iowa's standing with the Marlin vs I shoot the 7mag from a benched bipod

  14. #54
    Boolit Master
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    Load 45-70 with Trail Boss and shoot out of a light Handi-Rifle without too much kick.
    I use 14 grains of Trail Boss and can shoot 50 rounds at one time.

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    My top loads in the 45-70 produce way more recoil than a 7mm Mag.
    I would advise you to use Trapdoor type loads in a Marlin if you want to enjoy the experience. Near .458 Win Mag loads are very unpleasant to shoot.

    Quote Originally Posted by JT78 View Post
    On a side note not worried too much about recoil just safety. Honestly I shoot 7mag with 195gr that kick harder than the 405 gr did in my Marlin although Iowa's standing with the




    Marlin vs I shoot the 7mag from a benched bipod
    EDG

  16. #56
    Boolit Master
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    Never rely on reloading advice from the internet solely. Get yourself a good reloading manual, several is better, and go by what they say.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Unique + 45-70 = accurate fun.
    It's all you need to play.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  18. #58
    Boolit Bub
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    I have Lyman's manual 48,49, and 50 also Lee 2ND edition , Sierra 5th edition and the nosler that came with my rcbs equipment. I have also gone by some load data from hodgdon website. I load for several calibers of pistol and rifle. Found more info for 405 gr boolits but not so much for 500gr that is short enough to cycle a Marlin.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check