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Thread: 45-70 need some advice

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    45-70 need some advice

    Ok so long story short I'm new to reloading and have had trouble finding some of the powders I have a Marlin 1895 GBL and in looking up loads for a 400 gr bullet and 4064 I found load data on the hodgdon website of 53.5-57 gr of 4064 so I loaded a 405 gr powder coated hard cast bullet with 54gr of 4064 by reading I have learned that these will kick like a mule which is ok I am just wanting to know if these are going to be safe to shoot? I am planning to load a lot lighter loads for this gun as I get the powders I'm after like 4198 and unique in reading my Lyman's manual they look like they will be a better choice. In the mean time hodgdon shows the load data to be within working pressures but it's with a jacketed bullet which is different than cast so that's why I'm asking.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    I use 70 gns of pyrodex in mine. Great groups, low recoil, and I fire a 405 gn lee casting. I have fired a bunch now, no rusting after cleaning, no **** in the internals. All good to go.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Let me offer some advice. I've own/owned several 45-70 rifles and it's probably one of my favorite cartridges. Before pursuing your load with 4064 and thinking you'll change to a different powder later, just get something different right now before you start. In my mind it makes no sense to start using a powder simply because you have some on hand. It's a waste of components, time, and development. The 45-70 is the least fussy caliber I've ever loaded for. It shoots several powders really, really well with 400+ grain bullets. Save the 4064 for something else and get some 2400, Unique, 4198, Rel7, 5477, or 4579 (if you can find some of that). All of those powders shoot very well in that caliber. Also, you can load up or down with all of them to suit your needs. Just speaking for myself, I load everything to around 1350-1550fps with those 400 grain bullets. I can shoot them for extended range sessions and they pass through a deer like a hot knife through butter. I have yet to recover a single bullet. I can get an honest 1moa with them on a couple of guns on a good day.

  4. #4
    Boolit Bub
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    Appreciate the advice I've been reloading for my .308 for a while and figured if I couldn't use the 4064 for the 45-70 I could always use it on the .308. So which powder is going to be best? Chances are I'm going to have to wait and order an 8# can and pay the hazmat fee.

  5. #5
    Boolit Bub
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    In the mean time I reckon I need to pull the cartridges apart that I already loaded with the 4064? Or can I should I shoot them?

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    My go to powder is IMR 3031, pm me for load data, shoots great, clean, and leaves big holes in big critters, bear, big whitetails, and elk, have all fallen to this load!

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    BTW, according to QL data that 57 grains of 4064 powder with a Lee 457-405-F cast bullet is going to creat around 40,000 psi with almost 1900 fps in a 19" barrel. That is going to kick like a mule! and be sure your rifle is rated for that type of pressure. That's Ruger pressures. the starting load of 53.5 grains is around 36,000 psi which is still going to kick like mule.

    I'm with the other folks who say load into the range of 1300 fps and that's still a bit of wallop.... on both ends {g}.

    per QL, 40 grains is going to be a much nicer load - around 1300 fps or so.

  8. #8
    Boolit Bub
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    Please excuse the ignorance but what is QL?

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT78 View Post
    Appreciate the advice I've been reloading for my .308 for a while and figured if I couldn't use the 4064 for the 45-70 I could always use it on the .308. So which powder is going to be best? Chances are I'm going to have to wait and order an 8# can and pay the hazmat fee.
    You won't go wrong with either 2400 or Unique. Both shoot amazingly well in all my guns and they also work in just about any cast bullet load you'll ever use in either handgun or rifle. They are really good in just about anything. My preferred load is 2400 with 400g cast bullets. I use either 24.0 or 25.0 grains, and it's easy on the shooter, the gun, but not on the deer. Very accurate.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    That last load of 2400--24.25 grains is in my favorite range, also. I use a small tuft of pillow dacron fiber over the powder to keep it in a consistent place and the accuracy seems to support its use. I have the same rifle and shoot either the old Lyman 457193 410 grain or Lyman Gould 330 grain HP boolit using the same load of powder and dacron tuft. The latter boolit recoils less and shoots faster. I also have the Ranch Dog 300 grain flat nose gas check mold and it puts out an even lighter recoiling load that's plenty of punch for deer or hogs at 100-150 yards using a 2-7 X scout scope on that rifle. It's a very forgiving round to load. GF

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Please get a good load manual and follow it. Lots out there with lots of data. The .45-70 is a good one and you can load it from wild to mild. 405 is a lot of bullet / boolit. As you are, as you say, new to the reloading game, go forth with safety in mind. Follow the manual. I use the .45-70 to hunt with and have no real "target" use for it. For me (deer, bear & boar), are well served with a trap door level load and I don't have a need for the real hot rods available. Best of luck.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    Arrow

    This(!!!): "Please get a good load manual and follow it. Lots out there with lots of data." ...725

  13. #13
    i'm not a 45-70 guy. i've used it, quite successfully, on deer. i have used 330gr gould and 405gr fn and i think, 350gr ranch dog. i have used it above trapdoor loads. my handi tells me so!!! you see, i am a coward on recoil, my shoulder tells me also. i would go with 2400 for whatever the boolit weight is.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    I'm a 3031 fan. Even though I've only tried a few powders in a .45-70, I have found it's a pretty tough caliber to make "not shoot". 3031 seems to work across the whole spectrum of .45-70 data (from Trapdoors to Ruger #1's) and has always seemed pretty predictable in terms of pressure and speed. No filler (Unique, 2400), no fretting compression (Trail Boss), just load it and go.

    Not knocking the others, they have their place and I've used them, I'd even allow that 3031 is nearly impossible to run through a powder measure, so be ready to weigh every charge.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy redhawk0's Avatar
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    I use IMR3031 and H4198 in my 45/70. Both powders shoot well from my Henry. As stated above...Get a good load manual...I actually like the One Book/One Caliber manual by Loadbooks USA. They cover a lot of powder/bullet combinations...including Trapdoor loads, lever action, strong action loads.

    Once you have the data...then ask any questions you might have.

    redhawk

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  16. #16
    Boolit Master Grmps's Avatar
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    You can find downloadable manuals and data here

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...online-sources

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Trail Boss is a powder that gives a reasonable recoil and enough velocity to kill Bambi. Minimum loads are fun. Remember the 45/70 killed a lot of buffaloes loaded to rolling block levels. I believe that the US Army reduced to 70 gr load to about 50=/- gr for use in carbines. No one likes to get beat up by recoil.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master pmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT78 View Post
    Ok so long story short I'm new to reloading and have had trouble finding some of the powders I have a Marlin 1895 GBL and in looking up loads for a 400 gr bullet and 4064 I found load data on the hodgdon website of 53.5-57 gr of 4064 so I loaded a 405 gr powder coated hard cast bullet with 54gr of 4064 by reading I have learned that these will kick like a mule which is ok I am just wanting to know if these are going to be safe to shoot? I am planning to load a lot lighter loads for this gun as I get the powders I'm after like 4198 and unique in reading my Lyman's manual they look like they will be a better choice. In the mean time hodgdon shows the load data to be within working pressures but it's with a jacketed bullet which is different than cast so that's why I'm asking.
    I am shooting about 52 grains of 3031 in my Marlin with a 405 grain boolit and it works great. I bet the 4064 should work pretty good too. Just match your rifle to the rifle on the website because they have loads for trap door, lever action and Ruger number 1. And you should be fine
    Recent cast boolit hunts:
    buck & doe, Accurate Molds 36-225AG Model 94AE
    Russian Boar Accurate Molds 46-405A Marlin 45-70
    doe 32 Win. Spl. 1920's Winchester model 1894 rifle

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT78 View Post
    Please excuse the ignorance but what is QL?
    Sorry it took me so long to respond. QL is a program called "QuickLoad" and is pretty neat.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickLOAD

    http://www.neconos.com/details3.htm

    You can download a demo copy above. It's fun to play with, and like any other source, should ALWAYS be used with common sense

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy Tenbender's Avatar
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    Try ACC 2015.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check