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Thread: help getting started with bullet casting

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    help getting started with bullet casting

    Hi all. New to forum and new to casting. Trying to feed my 45/70 BPCR has finally pushed me to the realization that I got to get the cost down. The bullets I use are 535gr postell's. I have been reserching everything on line concerning the right furnace. It seems from what I have read temperature control is a big deal. Also, people using manual set thermostaticaly controlled units are buying or building pid's (or ped's) to provide automatic temp. Controll. The two units I have reviewed that com with digital readout and auto control are the lyman mag 25 and rcbs pro melt 2. It seems that the lyman has had problems right out of the box and the rcbs is untested by the public. The rcbs still has no firm in store date. The waage really seems to be a good choice and has good temp control. It is expensive, about $260. deliverd. The lee pots are affordable and parts replacement is available. I relly like the waage, but, lead must be dipped from top of pot and poured into mold. I have a heart condition and worry that being a top fill pot, casting will be a great deal hotter for me to do. That being I will be standing over the pot soking up all it's heat. Seems a bottom pour unit would be a little cooler to operate. Sure could use some gudance.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    First off you don't need temp control to cast good bullets.

    Down the road a piece if you find this makes life easier, sure, go for it.

    For now almost any solution that will melt lead will let you get started. From a cast iron pan on the kitchen stove to a 20 lb bottom pour pot and everything in between.

    Next, your starting on the easy end. IMO bigger is easier than smaller.
    Trying to cast good .223/.224 bullets can be a trial.

    The bigger the caliber the fewer rejects I see. And heavier works in the same way.

    300 grain mold warms up faster and makes good bullets quicker than a 125.

    The only real issues I would expect you to see is running out of lead, or the mold getting too warm. Frosty bullets.

    A damp towel laid where you can lay the mold on it to cool it down a bit will help control the mold temp.

    I can't stand for long, so I found a low mostly metal table which I surfaced with more metal from a metal desk.

    I sit down to cast. Mold is rested on the top of the pot. Left hand holds the handles and angles the top towards the ladle. Ladle matches up with hole and tips its load in. I often tip a bit more than needed opening a crack so that liquid metal can flow into the cavity and back out the sprue hole into the pot. I think it helps with bubbles, and such. Consistency.

    I just use a computer chair that I can adjust height so everything flows. Set the ladle back in the pot while watching sprue cool. Grab my mold thumper which is a lead weighted chunk of 3/4 PVC. Crack the sprue, hold over a pan with a couple of folded towels in it and give it a tap on the handle bolt. Rinse and repeat.

    Sitting down puts my nose farther from the pot.

    Experience of course is the best teacher. So the sooner you get started the sooner you will start learning. Dive in!

    Go find out what works for you.
    Last edited by GhostHawk; 03-04-2018 at 09:43 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Mold
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    Thanks. A few questions. You say that temp control is not needed. I have read that lee pots can very by as much as +/- 40 deg. Is that not a big deal? Do you think that a bottom pour pot is much cooler for the operator than a top pour pot. Which do you prefer?

  4. #4
    Boolit Man
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    I have been using a Lee Pot, and purchased a thermometer to check the temps. While I have noticed the temp varying around 40 degrees, It has not harmed my bullets. I run the melt temp to 800 degrees on the thermometer, keeping the pot between 3/4-2/3 full of melt during casting session. It works well. The type of mold you are using will determine best temp range. I have found that brass molds work best, with steel molds a close 2nd, and aluminum to be the most sensitive to overheating while casting. Don't get me wrong, I have fine results with aluminum molds, but brass and steel are more forgiving, and easier to use and more durable. Fluxing the melt while casting is necessary to keep the tin mixed in the melt properly. I caste till I have about 30-50 bullets in my drop box. I then leave the last pour in the mold, and set it on the rim of the pot to keep it warm. I then cull the bullets I have, weighing them and checking for fill-out. Any that vary beyond .5 grs +/- of the average weight of good bullets get thrown back into the pot, and I flux the melt with Marvelox prior to starting again. I continue to do this routine till I have about 100 good bullets, and call it a day. I hope this helps.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master

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    The big thing to consider here are, How many of these bullets do you need to cast in a sitting? 535 grn bullet go thru a 20 lb pot in a short time. Having to stop and refill the pot waiting for it to come back up to temp can become a problem. Also on these big bullets the streams pressure changes quickly due the level it drops. A proper stand or table to sit up on makes the difference on casting. A stand or table at the desired height makes life a lot easier.

    On most pots the rheostat is simple numbers and don't really correspond to a temp. On these ( even the others) a thermometer is handy for knowing what you at. This helps a lot repeating results. The older rcbs pro melts turn up at gun shows, garage sales and swapping and selling here. A used pot is okay if it can be found. Again a dedicated table is a plus. A ladle pot is good and has some added benefits but you want the table lower since your working from the top of the pot and not underneath. We had several wage pots at work and they were very good. If buying a wage pay attention to the models temp range as they make them for cosmoline, solder, zinc, and some other uses.

    The diffrences between ladle and bottom pour are. The bottom pour can be faster depending on stream size, and not having to change from ladle to tapper. head pressure does change with the volume of the pot. Temps may need to be slightly higher to offset cooling in the stream between valve and mould. Capacity with big bullets may require topping off sooner and more often. This time allows mould to cool and may have some out of specs bullet till it gets back to normalized temp. The ladle pot is nice in the until it gets down to where the ladle can be fully filled the head pressure dosnt change. A good ladle seems to fill the cavity faster also. A ladle pot at the right height allows you to sit back and comfortably rest the mould on the edge of the pot while filling it. I find the ladle pots easier to flux and skim also.

    I cast bullets that are long and heavy for caliber. 38s 335-365 40s 400-425 grn and 45s 500-550grn. I even cast the 535 lyman postel you mentioned. My procedure is as follows. I ladle cast with a rcbs ladle that has the spout opened to .210 dia hole. This gives a good fast flow and fill to the moulds. Most of my moulds are 2 cavity and I cast with 2 moulds at a time. I start my pot heating (Home made 120lb capacity over a weed burner on turkey frier stand) the moulds are put on the warming shelf on the side of the pot. My moulds are all vented to the front. When up to temp of 700* I start casting. I fill mould not pouring a sprue but pouring a ladle full of lead into the sprue letting the excess run back into the pot. This keeps the bullet molten longer and allows air and gasses to escape better. I then repeat with second mould, I now cut the sprue on the first mould and drop bullets onto a small table beside me with a stack of cotton bar towels for a cushion. I have ran 500+ bullets within under 1 grn of each other like this.

    My pot is large and propane fired but when set it maintains temp very well due to the mass of the lead in it. It just takes more and longer to change the temp on that much lead.

    A lot is going to depend on the space you have, How your comfortable working and the ability to secure the tables stands at the correct height. The little table that sits beside me for sprues bullet and odds and ends is a aluminum folding camp table I got at Wallmarts. Other than the pot when full this equipment is fairly quick and easy to sit up and use.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    I bought the Lee 20 pound bottom pot. A lead thermometer is an easy and cheap investment. Using a cheap Walmart hotplate is a game changer, but dipping the corner of the mold in the melt till the lead doesn't stick anymore works just as good. Its not that hard to adjust the pot thermostat a little bit every now and then. Keep it simple. That fancy stuff is for only ease of operation and really not that big of an inconvienece or necessity. If i cant cast good bullets with a cheap Lee pot then i don't think an RCBS or PID is on gonna save me.

    If heat is an issue get you a little desk fan. It does make a difference. Don't forget the ergonomics of your casting area. I cast outside on nice cool days or cold days. I cast in the fire place on hot humid days (Florida swamps). You could even cast next to an open window with two fans. One blowing fumes out the window and the other blowing air on you.

    I cast till i have a nice pile of bullets. Set the molds on hot plate and dump all the sprues in and then cull. I cull based on visual defects i don't care about weight differences that much unless i am going for pin point sub MOA accuracy. I feel that is more superstition than fact though. Once the lead thermometer hits 850* i start casting again. Keep repeating until alloy level is down to the last half inch of melt then i set ingots on the hot plate to pre warm. Once they are too hot to handle i reload the pot and make a sammich and get a drink while it melts. I really only flux twice. Once when i start and again when the pot is about empty before i fill it. The weight of the melt will trap a lot of crud in the bottom of the pot. Fluxing acts to reinclude the separated oxidized metals and to release impurities. I keep this up until i refill my cashes of good bullets. I keep a lot of bullets on hand and once my jars get empty i start again. During the work week i cast after work and normal cast about 20LBs a day during the work week. On the weekends i go through a lot. I just refill my pot for the 3rd time it just hit 850* got get back to work. I have about 8 more jars to fill. Did i forget to mention i shoot a lot....
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    PED? PID stands for proportional–integral–derivative, what does PED stand for? Not seen that acronym before, hmmm.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master daloper's Avatar
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    davisJ One thing you might want to do is update your location. Maybe there is someone close by that would be willing to give you same hands on training. As for pots, I use a Lee bottom pour and it works fine for me. I don't cast anything that big but casting for my Ruger 480 drinks the lead from the pot. Getting a hot plate to preheat the molds work best for me. just put a circular saw blade on it and set your mold on that. You will find the temperature setting for the hot plate that works best for you.

  9. #9
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    It just depends on you cheap you are. Super cheap you say no control is needed you can judge the temp of the bullets by what they look like.

    Less cheap you pop for a thermometer so you can try to manage the cheap *** control on your cheap meting pot.

    Big spender who wants the most control a regular control freek you either purchase a decent piece of equipment or you add a decent PID for temp control

    So, how cheap are you?

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master
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    When I started 45 years ago there weren’t any PID controllers, we managed to make good bullets. But even if you start with a basic furnace, a PID controller can be added later so do not worry about it.

    I do not cast bullets that large, but have used a 20 lb Lyman to cast with a 10 cavity 148 gr mold and that empties the pot quickly. It can be made to work by adding ingots when the pot is 2/3 full and waiting for the temperature to come back up. A thermometer will cost about $40 and is a worthwhile accessory even if you decide on a PID.

    If money is tight, start with a Lee. It is cheap but effective IF you work with it. Down the road, if you upgrade, it will have use as a spare, or to use with different alloy, or as a pre-melter to better control the temperature and level in your main pot. BTW, I purchased one of the Lee pots for that specific function.
    Don Verna


  11. #11
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    I'm going to tell you to purchase once and purchase good equipment. Yes, you could purchase a cheap drip-o-matic Lee bullet pot or you can save a little while longer and get something that will last a lifetime. yes, loaders and casters we are cheap people but there is no reason to add to your frustration by purchasing a *** in my opinion.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    "Pay Once, Cry Once" is a nice concept, sadly equipment gets stolen, breaks, etc. so I'll just prepare for crying forever :P

  13. #13
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    davisj, welcome to CB

    There is a difference between being cheap and lacking extra funds for a hobby.

    The Lee 20 pound bottom pour pot gets the job done, I hooked a PID to mine and haven't felt the need to "upgrade" ( I actually have 5 of them set up for different alloys)
    Lee may not be as fancy as RCBS or Lyman, but it costs a lot les and has a better warranty than Lyman (you can't beat RCBS warranty)

    a good lead thermometer will run you about the same price as a PID kit (needs a little DIY) [Lyman thermometers have a bad track record of being off)

    PID kit $37.99
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N1ZUGUZ...v_ov_lig_dp_it
    +
    search 100mm K-Type Temperature Controller Thermocouple Sensor 100°C to 1250°C 1M T1 US $1.90

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    I have the Lee 40-20, works fine. I did add the PID after a few years - it does help but not a necessity. I sit and bottom pour, have a heart condition & bad shoulder also. 2 hole moulds max for that size boolit. 4x are OK for pistol. Cheap hot plate is a benefit. Leather gloves, glasses, cap and long sleeve cotton shirt. Old leather mallet to tap the handles to drop the boolits. I put the money in good quality moulds.
    Whatever!

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    "Thanks. A few questions. You say that temp control is not needed. I have read that lee pots can very by as much as +/- 40 deg. Is that not a big deal? Do you think that a bottom pour pot is much cooler for the operator than a top pour pot. Which do you prefer? "

    Mine are all top, ladle casting pots. But I sit, and sit arms length back from the pot, not over it. To be honest arms length plus 5 inches of ladle handle.

    Standing over a bottom pour pot you are not going to be able to tell what is happening.

    I have been casting boolits and fishing sinkers since the 70's, never owned a lead themometer.

    I had a bottom pour lee at one point, and I'll admit I was young, and not that smart. A month and a half later my friend had it, I gave it to him.

    Frankly I have not missed it at all.

    You can cast bullets with almost anything.

    Yes some tools do make life easier. But at the end of the day, it is you that has to be able to judge.

    A is the melt hot enough?
    B is the mold warm enough?

    And there is nothing that teaches you faster than failure. Experience is gained by doing. So the sooner you start doing, the sooner you start figuring this stuff out.

    I would agree with daloper post #8.

    Tell us where you are, let us see if we can get you some hands on help.
    There is a wealth of information here. Only limit is how fast you can suck it up, process it, try it, learn from it and incorporate it into your skill set. See what works and what does not for you.

    Lead has from my experience essentially 3 states. Solid, almost melted where you can see grain structure if you disturb it, and liquid. To cast it needs to be liquid. Preferably above 450 degrees to under to 800 degrees.

    No I don't worry about 40 degrees. Even with a PID your pot will vary that much as lead levels change. Especially pouring big bullets.

    Your Mileage May Vary.

  16. #16
    Boolit Mold
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    Wow. I am getting years of experiance from all of you. I have read and reread the above post. And, the point is well taken about just going ahead and getting started. I have decided that a ladle pot will probably be best for me. Mainly because of the large bullets (45-70) I am casting. Probably a 20# lee. I am going with a lyman mild steal 457132 single mold for 45/70cal. Although, I am curious about the RCBS 45/70 cast iron mold. My rifle has a groove diamiter of .458. The lyman mold is sized at .458 to .459. . From what I understand I will be able to use a lubrisizer to ensure the .458 dia. is aquired. What do youll think about frakfford arsinsal fluxing compound. Is there a better way to go. I must say that country gent's 120lb propane fired pot has got me thinking. Would a cast iron pot be best for that setup. It does make sence to me that a large amount of lead in a heavy pot will help to regulate the temp.. but, I would not need a pot as large as country gent's. I have a propane burner/ fryer stand. I could get a large cast iron pot for it. I have heavy aluminum pots, but dont know if aluminum would work out. I am located way down in dixie. Savannah GA. I am sure bullet casters are around this area. If your out there, let me know.
    Again, I just want to say what a great group of people have reached out to help me. This is a great forum.

    Thanks

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master

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    One thing to consider is 2 of those moulds and handles. Mark the nose on one with a simple ring or dimple if you feel a need to keep them separated. Cast with both moulds filling one and setting it aside while cooling and filling the other. This improves production and bullets quality for me. By running 2 moulds they stay evener in temp bullets are set up better, and time spent waiting on sprues to set up and cooling is spent casting.

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I don't recommend aluminum for casting pots. Iron/steel, cast iron and stainless steel all work well in that order. A pot can be purchased used new or made. For ladle casting I like a larger Dia domed bottom pot that's a little shallower in depth. It makes it easier to ladle down to empty that way. My pot is a cut off propane tank ( 25LB) cut just above the bottom radious. roughly 14" in dia and 4 inches deep at the deepest. I cut a 3" ring and removed the small dia base. This ring was welded onto the pots bottom for a bigger foot print and much better stability. It works for me. I made a mount for a thermometer also.
    If you go the cut down tank route. Be safe and carefull. Remove valve and flush with dish soap and water several times. filling completely full and draining. Make sure its purge of all residual gas. I clamped mine up and cut it with hacksaw by hand ( less chance of sparks). Mark where you want the cut and then 2 wraps of 2" masking tape around the tank with one edge on the mark gives a good line to follow when cutting. Be safe and make sure tan is completely purged. The added ring makes for a solider base and can be welded on or the pot sat in it on the stand. I do recomed some welds around on the ring though.

    A flat bottomed pot has more lead left in it when ladling becomes hard. a deeper smaller dia pot also has more lead left in it at the point you cant fill the ladle. I would estimate I cn ladle my pot down to around 3-4 lbs lead left in it, do to the shallow depth and domed bottom

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Sheesh View Post
    "Pay Once, Cry Once" is a nice concept, sadly equipment gets stolen, breaks, etc. so I'll just prepare for crying forever :P
    Sounds like I irritated someone here.

    I hate to admit but I started out with the Lee drip-o-matic. I thought it was great for about two casting sessions until it started dripping and dripping and dripping. I rotated the screw in hopes that what was on the needle would kindly drop off and the thing would work correctly. It never did. I saved my money and when Ballisti-cast offered a deal I jumped on it and the difference was night and day. I never looked back. No more holding 4 cavity mold or smacking the sprew plate to knock off the excess. Oh, it hasn't broke yet or been stolen so I guess that buying right was the correct thing to do. Anyway if Lee was the only pot one could purchase I would go to a gas fired pot with a ladle. At least with this type of setup one wouldn't have to worry about the valve leaking out the entire contents of the pot.

  20. #20
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    Those happy 4-20 users, and they are legion, have mechanical aptitude

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check