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Thread: Different Magazines...Different Accuracy...

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Might not be related but what position are you resting your pistol on the rest? Putting pressure on the mag from the bottom can cause feeding problems. That might affect accuracy.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master

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    if all rounds are built exactly the same, and all rounds can be verified to chamber exactly the same, the magazine is out of the consistency equation.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Walther PP x 32 ACP ALWAYS shoots better for me with its finger-hook magazine than with its flat-bottom mag. Grip consistency and dynamics exert A LOT of influence over shot placement--resting the pistol might help some, but differences still occur downrange.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master


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    Called Kimber the other day and they are sending me a new magazine—the one that is flush with the base of the grip…

    The guy I talked to said the single notch in the side of the short magazine is the way they are to be. The double notch is what the extended magazine is to have…

    It appears the short magazine must be made by some other company other than Kimber as there is absolutely no name or marks on it at all unless they are on the inside…

    Well, guess I will give it a try and see what happens. Who knows? If it shoots the same as the other one, then it must be the way the handgun is griped with the shorter magazine. If that is the case, reckon I will purchase the extended magazine…

    Thanks…BCB

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    Walther PP x 32 ACP ALWAYS shoots better for me with its finger-hook magazine than with its flat-bottom mag. Grip consistency and dynamics exert A LOT of influence over shot placement--resting the pistol might help some, but differences still occur downrange.
    Like he said

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    The magazine is doing nothing but holding the rounds. The may you are holding the firearm is different with the extended magazine.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    Kimber does not make magazines. Other vendors make them and stamp the Kimber name on them.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    most firearms manufacturers do not make their own magazines.

  9. #29
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    I got a PM from a follower of this thread and he indicated some more clarification might be helpful. So here goes…

    The handgun is a Kimber Micro 9 in the 9mm cartridge…

    The factory ammo was Sig Sauer 115 grainers…

    The target that shows the string of impact points is deceptive. The target is oriented the wrong way in the pic. The impact points ARE VERTICLE and not horizontal as the target shows. The writing on the target was at the top when the “group” was fired…

    The first round was the highest impact. The other 4 just hit at random during the shooting process. Yet, they remained in a fairly straight line…

    It would be difficult to know who made the magazines. The spokesman from Kimber indicated they were made by other than Kimber. So, maybe they are all made by the same company? Yet the long one has 2 notches and the short one has 1 notch. Maybe lowest bidder at any particular time...

    Kimber is sending me another short magazine. They had no problems doing this when I explained to the person what was going on with the different magazines. Maybe they have heard of this from others? So, I will be able to do a comparison when it arrives. Maybe compare both short ones? Or the new short one with the proven extended one? Or maybe do both comparisons…

    I realize that the hold difference with both magazines could be the problem. I certainly have noticed this with all the wheel guns I shoot. BUT, I would think that if the handgun, when used with the short magazine, was held to one position on the sandbags that the hits might be different than with the extended magazine, but they should group the same, but a different location…

    And, as the guy who PM’ed me thought that maybe if I could remove the extension and put in on the short magazine and give that a try. I might, but I really hate to try to remove it as I KNOW I WILL NEVER GET IT BACK ON THE CORRECT WAY—this type of deficiency I have had to live with my entire life!!!!...

    Thanks…BCB

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    The first shot high and the rest at random does tend to weaken my thought that magazine spring tension could be a factor. If the first shot was low, and the rest moved up on the target, that would make one suspect that less tension on the bottom of the barrel would allow it to not be pressed firmly to lock up with the slide. Meaning the barrel could be tilted down a little bit in the rear and result in high hits on the paper.

    Does the gun fill your hand or does it seem a little small for the size of your hand? Dusty

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by sac View Post
    The magazine is doing nothing but holding the rounds. The may you are holding the firearm is different with the extended magazine.
    Amen

    The spring pressure in the magazine has absolutely NO effect on the lock up and thus no effect on shot placement. The very simple fact is the gun doesn't fit right in your hand with the small magazine.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Groo's Avatar
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    Groo here
    The function of the mag is to hold and feed the cartridge.
    It will have NO effect on the bullet when fired.[ the bullet is out of the barrel before the slide unlocks]
    The finger extension WILL effect the grip the hand has on the gun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Few people understand how the little finger controls the climb of the gun when firing..
    To test, put your little finger Under the extension and shoot .
    It will not be the "same " as the flat mag but will show a difference against holding the finger rest mag normal.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master


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    Well, there are two groups one fired with the extension magazine and the other with the NEW MAGAZINE sent to me by Kimber…

    The new magazine has 2 notches as does the extension magazine. It is identical with the exception of the length. Even down to the name etched on it. (The old one was completely nameless—not a marking on it at all)

    Both groups were fired at 30 feet from a good sandbag rest. As could be expected, even from past experience with wheel guns, P.O.I. was different, but groups were very similar…

    I realize I only did one test run with the new one, but it is obvious to me, the group is “the same” (around 2”) as the group produced by the extended magazine, just a different location…

    The groups likely would have been better had I used the laser rather than the open sights…

    I guess all reading this can decide what the problem actually was/is…

    Thanks…BCB
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  14. #34
    Boolit Master

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    did the cartridges feed ok? did they chamber ok?

    if so, i would love to know just how a magazine, all by itself, can change POI.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    did the cartridges feed ok? did they chamber ok?

    if so, i would love to know just how a magazine, all by itself, can change POI.
    Everything worked fine...

    One thing I did notice was the cartridges were much easier to put in the new magazine than the old one...

    Who knows? Maybe just a freak group that can't be repeated?...

    BCB

  16. #36
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCB View Post
    Everything worked fine...

    One thing I did notice was the cartridges were much easier to put in the new magazine than the old one...

    Who knows? Maybe just a freak group that can't be repeated?...

    BCB
    as described, it literally makes no sense at all. once the round clears the mag and properly enters and seats in the chamber, there is no mag involved in ignition or firing.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    did the cartridges feed ok? did they chamber ok?

    if so, i would love to know just how a magazine, all by itself, can change POI.
    A good example of how the POI could change based upon grip. The short magazine does not offer support to/by the little finger.

    See post #23

  18. #38
    Boolit Master

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    grip is EVERYTHING. i would have assumed a lock down rest was used for this testing. physically holding the gun in any manner will totally skew the results.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master


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    Well, it is what it is...

    I make no claims as to why this group was better than all the other shootings with the short magazine. Even shooting off-hand the hits were always closer with the extended magazine...

    All groups were fired from sandbags that were at the same location on the bench and the grip was the same and never changed except to remove and insert a new magazine. Solid as the "rock of Gibraltar" so to speak...

    Oh well, at least the new magazine has 2 notches and the same etching as the extended--sort of a Matched Pair!...

    Maybe just one of the mysteries of Nature!!!...

    All's well that ends well, I reckon...

    Thanks...BCB

  20. #40
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCB View Post
    ....
    All groups were fired from sandbags that were at the same location on the bench and the grip was the same and never changed except to remove and insert a new magazine. Solid as the "rock of Gibraltar" so to speak...
    then the test is flawed and why there are different POI's for each mag.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check