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Thread: Different Magazines...Different Accuracy...

  1. #1
    Boolit Master


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    Question Different Magazines...Different Accuracy...

    I noticed a few targets that my wife shot at were “wild” to say the least. She shoots better than the targets indicated. Both with factory ammo and reloads…

    So, I went to my bench and loaded the short magazine with reloads and fired them at 10 yards using good rest—all over the board so to speak. Vertical stringing of around 6”…

    Loaded the extended magazine and fired the same reloads—all into a 2” group. (Good for me and open sights)

    I did the same with the Sig factory rounds and it did the exact same thing…

    I read someplace that Ken Waters mentioned this also. Has anyone ever noticed this type of accuracy differences using two different magazines?...

    Thanks…BCB
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master


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    Never checked off a rest, but unless the bullet is affected as it exits the magazine and hits the feed ramp and/or barrel I cannot envision the magazine having an affect. I would extract each round without firing and start measuring where the difference in the rounds are.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I would say it is relevant to grip or balance and not a mechanical change.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    I and a lot of others have noticed several Magazine related issues with NRA high power rifles. 1) is first round isn't in the group due to difference in chambering by hand to semi operation. 2) Mags not shooting to the same Point of impact of each other. A lot tested m14 and at mags pairing them together when 2 were found that shot together. A lot also found that certain mags exhibited less 1 shot differences and designated these 2 round or the first magazine. I have tuned a few 10-22s and one place to fine tune is the magazines follower tension it can make a difference. I see no reason the same wont hold true with hand gun magazines. Follower tension, shape, feed lips, and other little things can all combine to make a mag different, and may be hard to see or notice

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    It is a grip issue. The extended magazine probably lets you get more fingers on the gun and less vertical stringing. If it was horizontal and vertical dispersion it would be something else most likely.

    The vertical only dispersion seems determinative. With my 40 Shield if I do not HANG ON the vertical dispersion is noticeable. The extended magazine lessens the effect compared to the shorty magazine I cannot get my pinkie on.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master


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    A couple more quick pics…

    The paper target shows 5 Sig factory rounds fired from the short magazine (no grip extension)…

    The bottom group on the steel target shows the same factory ammo fired from the magazine with the grip extension…

    I used factory to eliminate error with the reloads—brass length, crimp, etc. Although the reloads are good as I was pretty particular with them…

    The short magazine shot 5 holes that spread about 5”…

    The extension magazine shot a group about 2” in diameter…

    I am uncertain as to how any accuracy could be obtained with the short magazine. Is it possible it could be defective? Both factory magazines came with the Micro 9...

    Thanks…BCB
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    The magazines are noticeably different and the short one is missing a cut similar to the 1911 magazine. I have to wonder if the springs and followers are the same or perhaps the magazines got mixed up at the factory. Maybe another owner of the Sig micro 9 has seen something similar with his pistol? If they are not following the thread, there is nothing to alert them of the question. Maybe a new thread with a clear subject line would get some owners to respond?

  8. #8
    Boolit Bub
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    I would tend to agree with Mica and 35rem about it being a grip issue. I have a LC9s pro and found different groupings with the finger extension than without it. Doesn't much matter to me. Im not shooting for scores with that gun. It will still print minute of bad guy.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    My Ruger American Compact came with a 12 round as well as a 17 round mag with a piece to fill the grip gap. I shoot to the same POI with either mag. No FTF's with either, either.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I too am wondering how the short magazine stays in with no cutout for the magazine retention/release bar. It looks like they are oriented such that it should be visible. I am puzzled that I cannot see one after taking a look at the picture.’

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post
    I too am wondering how the short magazine stays in with no cutout for the magazine retention/release bar. It looks like they are oriented such that it should be visible. I am puzzled that I cannot see one after taking a look at the picture.’
    What puzzles me is that the long magazine has the magazine release notch on the wrong side.

    I am inclined to think the accuracy differences are grip related.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    When you have a finger dangling in mid air it affects accuracy. Its grip related. Install a longer magazine and your accuracy will improve. In my opinion its a shame people have to purchase these little micro guns so they can hide them better and the result is generally they can't hit the broad side of a barn.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    With either the Beretta Nano or the Kahr CM-9, I find no accuracy difference between the short magazine or the extended, at social distances. I do prefer the short magazine on the Kahr..........I find that the short exposed gap between base plate and mag well, typical on Kahr magazines, is uncomfortable, during recoil, for me. I recently added the Pearce extension on the 6 round Kahr mags and it seems to be a viable option.....it's on the Kahr now in my Mika pocket holster, as I'm typing.


    Winelover

  14. #14
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by 6bg6ga View Post
    When you have a finger dangling in mid air it affects accuracy. Its grip related. Install a longer magazine and your accuracy will improve. In my opinion its a shame people have to purchase these little micro guns so they can hide them better and the result is generally they can't hit the broad side of a barn.
    Actually this little Micro 9 is fairly accurate at resonable distances. Post #6 sort of shows this. The bottom cluster was shot with the extended magazine. The paper target with the short magazine...

    I am happy with the accuracy using the extended magazine, but maybe 30 feet is not a real indicator of accuracy? That's the limit for my eyes and open sights...

    Good-luck...BCB

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    The OP says he fired off a “good” rest. Hard to believe grip caused the accuracy issue. Dusty B made an astute observation. Start there.

    I am not familiar with the gun....how is the magazine retained?
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    The OP says he fired off a “good” rest. Hard to believe grip caused the accuracy issue. Dusty B made an astute observation. Start there.

    I am not familiar with the gun....how is the magazine retained?
    Yep, a real good rest. Both magazines where fired using the same rest...

    I just looked at the magazines and the extended magazine has notches (excuse my ignorance of terminology of semi-handguns) on both sides, the short magazine only has a notch on the right side...

    Maybe this doesn't matter?...

    Thanks...BCB

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    When you shoot the short magazine, and the group is horizontal, do the bullet impacts "walk" or is it just random left or right?

  18. #18
    Boolit Master


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    Look at the difference shown in your photo as to how the round is positioned in the lips of the magazine. The geometry is different, and that may affect how the round is chambered.

    To convince yourself. Do not feed rounds from the magazine. Single load every shot with both magazines in the gun. I suspect your groups will be the same. It is an easy test
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Look at the difference shown in your photo as to how the round is positioned in the lips of the magazine. The geometry is different, and that may affect how the round is chambered.

    To convince yourself. Do not feed rounds from the magazine. Single load every shot with both magazines in the gun. I suspect your groups will be the same. It is an easy test

    I am not sure what type extractor the SIG has but if it is the Colt tyype, I would not single load rounds directly into the chamber as you will damage the extractor. If the extractor is a spring loaded, pivoting type, no problem.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master lefty o's Avatar
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    magazines can have an affect on accuracy. depending on its spring tension and how high it allows round up into the feed lips. typically more noticed on rifles such as the M14, but even on a pistol a mag with a weak spring can have a different POI than one with a stiff spring as it changes the amount of force exerted on the slide from below. notice the slop between the frame and slide in many auto pistols, now imagine a mag with a stiff spring pushing up on the slide from below. things move!

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