Finally Made It To the Range!

[Cap'n Morgan]

A slo mo camera would definitely answer a lot of questions and end a lot of speculation. I wish I had one or had access to one.

Maybe if we pestered Blood Trail long enough he could persuade Jeff "Taofledermaus" to do some testing? He has a decent slo-mo setup and I, for one, would be more than happy to ship him samples of my slugs.

[longbow]

Now there's an idea! I wouldn't even mind donating some money and slugs/balls for testing of round balls (both bore diameter and shotcup diameter) and a selection of Foster, Brenneke style and other slugs... and of course a selection of your slugs. May have to drop the "selection of Foster..." as we'd keep Jeff busy for years.

He has tested a variery of slugs as you know but I'd really like to see round balls in flight and when they pick up a spin, and my favourite slugs Brenneke Classic, along with your Brenneke clone and your new slug design.

turbo1889 used to maintain that with Foster slugs there is a maximum and minim length that works assuming decent nose heavy design. Too much longer or shorter and stability is lost. Slugs are not arrows.

In Taofledermaus videos many attached wad slugs show violent oscillation of the tail wad even though many give good accuracy. I am wondering how the Brenneke Classic with relatively short tail wad compares to Gualandi DGS and these new Russian slugs with very long tail wads. I may have mentioned that I really like the Brenneke Classic design.

Several years ago I tested some Gualandi DGS slugs and was less than impressed. They did okay but not as well as I had thought they would. Recovered slugs showed skirts deformed by the wad at firing and some slugs keyholed at 50 yards. The skirts are actually quite thin.

I just received the care package from Kraken Fan #69 so thanks for that! He sent 50 Russian Paradox slugs. They are lighter than the original Kynock slugs which ran around 740 grs. and were solids. These Russian slugs run 570 grs. with tail wad and mic at 0.727" very consistently. The tail wads are very similar to Gualandi tail wads but the slug is much beefier. Nice looking slug.

Due to my poor performance last time at the range (I hang my head in shame) I will do some practicing and am building a nice rest so have good support when I shoot next time. Once I'm back in the groove I will try these Paradox slugs out.

I am very curious about the tail wads so will be endeavouring to recover slugs. My impression of the Gualandi DGS tail wads was that some "bent" at firing so likely caused the keyholing. They are long tail wads so any misalignment has to affect accuracy. Back to Cap'n Morgan's slo mo idea... this should be quite visible in slo mo video.

I have to think that Cap'n Morgan's tail wad is a better design than the Gualandi style.

Anyway, YES! let's think about getting Taofledermaus to do some testing. If we put our resources and money together he may just do it and the results could be very informative.

I vote for: round balls, Brenneke Classic slugs, Cap'n Morgan's slugs and say Russian slugs or Gualandi DGS with long tail wads.

Longbow

[Cap'n Morgan]

I am very curious about the tail wads so will be endeavouring to recover slugs. My impression of the Gualandi DGS tail wads was that some "bent" at firing so likely caused the keyholing. They are long tail wads so any misalignment has to affect accuracy. Back to Cap'n Morgan's slo mo idea... this should be quite visible in slo mo video.

I'm no fan of long, pliable wads. If the bottom is not even and the wad perfectly aligned with the center of the slug it is bound to influence accuracy. When testing my Brenneke clone (with a solid epoxy wad) at 100 meters, I noticed the holes were slightly oval while at 50 meters they punched a circular hole - indicating the "tail-wobble" was increasing with range. Also, this Finnish site http://guns.connect.fi/gow/historia5.html mentions the Von Witzleben "Flintenbolz" It was known as an "Elster-Geschoss" (a "magpie bullet") due to swinging of its tail in flight. I now firmly believe the shorter the slug, the better - as long as the center of mass is located well towards the front of the slug.

A slo-mo video would surely take a lot of the guesswork out of the slug-lore.

[tomme boy]

That's why federal uses the plastic ball. I find the slugs all the time laying at the range that were stopped by the snow. They were perfect. A little compressed but the base was nice and round. And that is why they shoot so well.

[longbow]

I'll correct my comment... Jeremy's idea for slo mo, Cap'n Morgan's for Taofledermaus testing slugs. Both are terrific ideas!

Yeah, I think long tail wads are an invitation for erratic flight unless they remain in virtually perfect condition. Gualandi uses them and the Russian slugs use them so I guess they work but, I have to think Cap'n Morgan is right and the shorter more or less solid wad makes more sense to me... back to Brenneke Classic!

Well, I finished my cross stick bench rest for my shotgun... or any other long arm. While it is a bit crude it is entirely functional and allows for solid yet easily adjustable rest. My carpentry skills are a bit lacking and it is made out of scrap lumber but if it works as planned I will rebuild "nicely" out of decent wood. I am pretty proud of it (functionally) and have to wonder why something similar is not available for shooters... but first let's see if it works well. I'll post pics if it does.

Hoping to try it out tomorrow morning with another round of slug shooting. Hopefully results will be better than last week.

Longbow

[725]

longbow,
I always follow your shot gunning results with interest. This is no exception. I understand your Cooey has full bore - no choke - smooth bore. That would mean the crown has been cut away. How's the crown? Even all around? The 84's were 2 3/4" chambered and the 840's, I think were 3". In the construction of your shell, are they of the appropriate length for which ever one you have? Long ago we conversed about my successes with a round ball load that, by all accounts, should have been too large to work, but did. (Pictures and tutorial should be stuck in the way back machine here in the castboolit archives under "success with my RB load" or something close). Basically a soft .702 RB in a petal'd wad (I called it a power piston - my own vernacular). Gave me amazing accuracy. Might work in your old Cooey.

[longbow]

725:

Mine has a 3" chamber. In fact I think all mine do. I've lost track and only shoot 2 normally but have at least three and I think 4 or maybe 5. I bought one a while ago for spare parts. The old Cooeys used to be common and inexpensive. I've had several over the years. This one I cut own as a slug gun. The crown is quite square but smooth and the gun is quite accurate if I do my part which I failed to do that last weekend... at least my poor shooting was a major contributor I am sure.

I have one old Cooey pre-Winchester buy out and it has a colour case hardened receiver and walnut stock. I had no idea prior that there were fancy grade Cooey's! All my others have been the same with plain hardwood (birch?) stocks and blued metal. Nothing fancy but always dependable.

I was digging through my big container of recovered slugs and found some glue filled slugs I had paper patched that had paper stuck to the glue. That is making me think that the paper patched slugs might have suffered that fate last weekend. I still can't believe 20 missed the paper! I plan to go to the range early tomorrow and hopefully look for some of the slugs I shot last weekend before anyone shows up. Recovered slugs usually tell a story especially when they are not accurate. I suspect distorted skirts or paper patching stuck to the slugs.

I'll take the blame for large round ball groups though as they do normally shoot very consistently into 4" or less at 50 yards. Maybe for the Lee slug group too.

For tomorrow I have a variety of slugs again but loaded up the Lee 7/8 oz. as cast in Winchester 1 1/8 oz. wads with a 16 ga. nitro card wad under. I also loaded up some of the Lee 7/8 oz. with added glue skirt. That helped the Lee 1 oz. slugs so well see.

I have always loaded 2 3/4" hulls for the 3" chamber and not really had any issues. I should try some 3" hulls to see if the shorter jump through the forcing cone helps though again I haven't had many slugs that seemed to care much. Some of my home made Brenneke clones with screwed on attached wads cocked for some reason flattening ribs diagonally (nose one side, base the other side) which I found odd as the same slug cast in hollow base so shorter did not do that. Odd indeed!

Yes, I still find it strange that your much oversize ball shoots so well for you. I couldn't get decent accuracy from a 0.690" ball in a shotcup in my gun yet the 0.678" RB's in shotcups and 0.735" RB's naked do very well. The 0.690"s pinched petals and my bore is actually 0.734" so large. Your gun isn't back bored is it? If so that may explain how it handles such a large ball.

Anyway, tomorrow is a new day! I have my new rest all built so the excuse of poor support will be gone.

I am hoping to redeem myself!

Longbow

[bikerbeans]

LB,

Good luck at the range and if you need a "new" excuse after testing and can help you out.

BB

[longbow]

It is supposed to be sunny today and it is looking good. Just about to eat and go. So... if its sunny then I'm prepared ~ "The sun was in my eyes!" That's the usual excuse at the archery range anyway... or "My fletch was wet." Those two cover most situations for archery. Excuses when shooting a gun under cover sometimes takes a little more creativity.

[725]

'Mornin, longbow,

My two shotguns that shoot the weird combo I put up are an H&R Ultra and an 870 w/ a Hastings rifled barrel cut down to 19 ". Doggone things are scary accurate. That .702 soft ball lands with devastating authority. Still have the 12 ga. wadcutter slug to experiment with from a mold obtained / developed by one of our fellow castbooliteers. Been on the back burner because of the success of my RB load. I still want to get to it.

Didn't realize that those Cooeys are an item desired by collectors 'till I was researching the Cooey .22 rifle that Bella Twin used to collect her 1953 world record bear kill. She must have been a character. Would loved to have had a conversation with her.

Good luck in your quest 725

[longbow]

I just got back and had a much better day at the range this time! Well, I enjoyed myself last time but that pesky poor accuracy thing had me going. Did better this time.

I'll start a new thread for that one.

Yeah, I don't know that Cooeys (or most Cooeys) are true collector items as there must have been gazillions made but I like them... especially the 12 ga. single shots. A good simple, functional and dependable gun. From what I have seen prices are climbing though.

Yeah, 12 ga. solids/balls do smack things with authority! I smashed a rock with a Nessler Ball clone today at about 125 yards. While I know the balls do whack things (or as Randy says "Snot flies!") I was a bit surprised at the damage it did at 125 yards.

I managed to recover quite a few slugs today so good stuff. Report to come in new thread.

What slug is your 12 ga. wadcutter?

Longbow

[725]

My 12 ga. slug is from a guy here on the site ~ Ace slug. I'll have to dig back and see if I can find the info. It's a mongo slug. Although I bought it some time ago, I haven't done any work with it yet. So much fun to be had and so little time to do it.

[longbow]

Okay, I know the one. I opted out of that group buy because I didn't think that slug would work well in smoothbore and it is heavier than I wanted.

Not sure if I am correct on the smoothbore thing but the cavity didn't seem to me to be large enough to make for weight forward enough design. That and the weight put me off (740 grs.?). Its kinda hard finding load data for slugs over about 600 grs. unless you just use birdshot load data for heavy payloads.

[725]

I researched some loads and they were, in fact, data from heavy bird shot loads. I'll get to it one of these days.