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Thread: Specific future bullet molds just for PC Cast bullets?

  1. #1

    Specific future bullet molds just for PC Cast bullets?

    I wonder if anyone is working on bullet molds that are specifically made for a powder coated cast bullet or if anyone has even been thinking that far ahead of the game...

  2. #2
    Super Moderator & Official Cast Boolits Sketch Artist


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    Check NOE I think he made some without lube grooves
    Reloading to save money I am sure the saving is going to start soon

  3. #3
    Boolit Master glockfan's Avatar
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    just want to point out that Tom from accurate mold just posted a new round i've designed with him ,which is a 9mm 145grs groovless TC intended as production class boolit.

    you can check it out in my thread about it,or on accurate mold website, draw is 35-145M

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I have made a couple at home.

    No grooves is absolutely great for dropping easy and a reduced reject rate.

    My current ongoing experiment includes "something entirely new" (where there is really little or nothing "new").

    I am currently making my own low tech, soft steel dies that allow No Jacket Swaging (NJS).

    With PC, a boolit can be made NJS style as follows:

    - A no lube groove mold is used to drop boolits fast & easy.
    - Neither the mold nor boolits need to be perfect.
    - PC is applied (I use ASBB HF red) on the as cast boolit.
    - The boolit is then formed to the final shape with one or more swaging passes.
    - Swaging passes are pushing the boolit up into the die and then back out the way they went in instead of the push through process.
    - One pass will be base first to get perfect, uniform, crisp, full circumference edge on the base.
    - The base first pass can also increase or reduce the boolit diameter and do minor re-shaping of the nose at the same time.
    - A second pass can be nose first to get a nose rider section that is just the right final OD and is perfectly concentric with the base.
    - My current nose first die allows me to take a boolit that is 0.309" with no nose rider portion and "add" my desired 0.299" nose as the last step.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    pretty much all the big names offer them. noe has a whole section just for coated, and mihic does them as well

  6. #6
    Boolit Master


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    Arsenal has lists, at least, one .30 cal...a nominal 188 grainer...specifically designed for PC. Catalog descriptions states that the 'typical' finish dimensions were based on using one of Smoke's powders for coating.

    Bill

    Btw: I ordered one of Jared's 309-188RN-GCs this afternoon. Will update after mold arrives.
    Last edited by Kraschenbirn; 03-04-2018 at 08:09 PM.
    "I'm not often right but I've never been wrong."

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  7. #7
    Boolit Master Gamsek's Avatar
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    MiHec NLG, 357-130, PB and no lube groove I get 135 or 140grs (pure). Designed to throw .357, so it easily sizes to whatever dia you want, even after PC. Very accurate

  8. #8
    Not sure I understand why you'd want a boolit without lube grooves. That would increase the bearing surface and thus the amount of friction. Where's the advantage?

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Arsenal and NOE both have a variety of PC molds.
    Last edited by Cue; 03-07-2018 at 02:10 AM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Gamsek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCowboy View Post
    Not sure I understand why you'd want a boolit without lube grooves. That would increase the bearing surface and thus the amount of friction. Where's the advantage?
    So a jacketed bullet, with even greater friction then powder coated one, should also have lube groove? That type of bullet can only be powder coated/HiTek, and those coatings are even slicker then lead it self.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    "To groove or not to groove............that is the question"......... Wm. Shakesbeer

    One that has been around here for several years. I have tons of groove molds I cast and PC with great success and accuracy.

    I bought into the NLG design early on, but have seen absolutely ZERO gain in anything. Grooved molds retain their value and are easy to sell to grease lubers if you ever have to liquidate.

    Lots of mold mongers have them available in numerous popular cals and weights. Just check around their sites.

    I never use my NLG molds anymore. Mabe someday I'll cast up a few hundred and shoot them again for comparison.

    banger

  12. #12
    Boolit Master MyFlatline's Avatar
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    Agree with Jim. Had some made from Accurate, really saw no benefit. I did realize that if I go to sell that mold, it will have to be to a PC'er or Paper Patch person. Hope that helps.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
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    For rifle I find NLG moulds work quite well. Push them harder and retain accuracy. Shot 142 PB (~2100), 170 PB (~1800) & 185 GC (~1600) from 10" BO pistol (off hand, no scope), got 1/2" @ 25 & this @ 7. Biggest problem is old eyes on the target. Oh, lower group in upper right is the 170 PB, 16 gr. cfeblk. Other is GC 185 with 16gr. cfeblk. Running the 142 with H110..
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Whatever!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    https://ibb.co/kvrOq7

    This is one from mp-molds.com

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Survival Bill View Post
    I wonder if anyone is working on bullet molds that are specifically made for a powder coated cast bullet or if anyone has even been thinking that far ahead of the game...
    Arsenal has a number designed for PC in 30 cal and 6 mm

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    In theory a NLG mold should be easier to make...the body is just a straight cylinder, more so even with a plain base.

    Bill
    Both ends WHAT a player

  17. #17
    I’ve wondered if you could just drill out an aluminum mold. If you did you couldn’t keep the gas check. Would you want a gas check?

    Also I found out that there is a lot more pressure without the lube grooves, so you can’t assume you can use the same loads for the same boolit weight.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    I agree with Bangerjim about any benefit gained with the non-grooves.

    The problem we have as powder coaters is the standard molds, including NOE molds, groove or not, throw a bullet that is just too big in diameter. To get the all the benefits of the polymer jacket the bullet coating need to be about 3 mils thick. This is not something I made up, this comes from a Phd chemist/polymer physicist who has more years in the industry than the age of most on this site. So if you take a bullet that has a diameter that is already several thousands oversize to begin with then build that out another 6 thousandths you have a lot of metal to move when the bullet is sized. The metal doesn't disappear it has to go somewhere.

    Basically what all the mold makers are doing is just selling the same grease molds just without grooves, which is no help at all.

    What P Flados has found out is what I have been saying for some time now and that is what we need is reasonable priced single swage dies that will reform a bullet to make a balanced concentric bullet with a perfectly flat base. In a perfect world the swage would match the mold. If that ever happens then then the polymer jacket will allow accurate full power loads at distance.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master


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    I see the advantage in bullets dropping out of the molds (especially Lee ones)

    but I've got all the molds I need (how many times have we said that ) and probably will still get lubed grooved ones if/when I get new molds
    NRA Life
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  20. #20
    I think the idea of powder coating is great. I have the boolits. I have the powder. I just have to find an oven at a flea market. Maybe tomorrow.However I still have a lot of questions.

    How thick is a normal powder coating ? Does that depend on the powder you’re using?

    Can you size the boolits down before coating, estimating how thick the coat will be ? Maybe resize a little afterwards just to smooth things out.

    What about gas checks? Without groves, will there be enough surface area to keep the gases from blowing buy? I saw one 500gr. from a NOE mold, no grooves or a place for a gas check.

    Can anyone answer these questions or do these things still need to be experimented with until we know the answers ?

    Thanks for all input and advice.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check