Casting temperature keeps creeping up ???? why

[Beagle333]

What prevents a Lyman or RCBS from being a drip-o-matic as well??

They are much better designs. They also put more weight on the needle than Lee. You can almost get a LEE to stop being a dripomatic if you add weight to the handle. You can either stack a bunch of washers under the handle and then you screw it back on, or you can clamp a small set of vice grips to the handle and just let them hang there and use that for a handle. I like the second one. You can pick a set up at Home Depot for 2-3 bucks and it makes a better handle than you already had (imho). Also.... you always have a set of vice grips handy if you need them.

[Drew P]

The thermocouples that have threads on them are nice. I drilled a hole in the bottom of the pot, screwed in the probe and capped it on the inside with an acorn nut to keep it from leaking.

[Mr_Sheesh]

LOL reminds me of a story. Friend had a pickup, the ground wire from the battery had the end of the cable flex enough that it fell off somehow - So he used vice grips to lock it to a frame flange, saying "And as a bonus I'll always have those available in case of need." He then promptly forgot about them until 15-20 years later when he noticed they were still there, but mostly rusted horribly :P Some friends are good for lots of facepalms!

The connections needed for a PID are usually the thermocouple (2 wires), power in (2 wires), and power out to the heater (2 wires), sometimes one wire less or a few more, depends on your situation. (Sometimes the "neutral" power wire is commoned between input and output.) Pretty simple. Usually a diagram and "crib notes" are available for wiring them in.

[kens]

LEE has a updated needle and handle, has anyone used it?
It is available if you go into Lee 'knowledge base' section, and look for the listing.

[HATCH]

how do you install a ready made one, like you say hatch sells, is it just a matter of splicing a few wires, or more involved than that?

For 120v units that are sold not just by me or others, its pretty much plug and play.
the hardest part is mounting the probe itself.
On a Lee 4-20 its pretty easy.
On the top of the pot is screws that hold the base to the pot.
I mount the probe about 10pm when looking at the pot. Basically other side away from pour handle if you have a bottom pour pot.
I use solid core wire (16 ga works great).
I wrap it around the probe tightly about 4 or 5 wraps.
I leave a inch of wire hanging out from both ends.
I get a non-insulated spade connector and crimp it on the 2 ends.

Once the assembly it all together (prior to mounting on pot), you can hold the spade connector and twist the probe. This tightens the connection even more. One turn is normally enough..

Mount the probe and make sure that it is off the bottom of the pot.

On the thermostat, you can do it two ways. I removed my thermostat completely and buttspliced the wires together.
Or you can turn it wide open if you want.
The only problem anyone has ever had is if the factory thermostat max temp range is under the range that you are trying to cast at.
This hasn't really been the case on the Lee 4-20 pots though...


Now on building them.
I will be honest.
They are pretty simple to build.
I would AVOID using cheap PID controllers. Some of them are poorly done clones that don't have all the features of the units they are trying to clone.

This is my recommendation. Yes, I know that I potentially will lose sales on this, but to be honest PIDs are sold by me more as a service then a money maker.

PID -> https://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...products_id=14
Enclosure -> https://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=431
SSR-> https://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...&products_id=9
4 inch probe ->https://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=101

The above items are $75 not including shipping

You will need a toggle switch (low amperage so any will do) ($5)
10 foot extension cord (16 ga if your plugging into a standard outlet) ($10)
Any hardware store (True Value, Lowes, Home depot, ect) will have those last two items.


Optional accessories
Panel mounted fuse holder - https://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=593
10 amp slow blow fuse -> https://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=734
panel mounted TC connector -> https://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=119
inline TC connector -> https://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=326

Now, I picked a 10 amp fuse because we are talking specifically about controlling a Lee 4-20 pot.
The heating element in that unit is 700 watts. Watts / Volts = amps so 700/120 = 5.9 amps or just shy of 6 amps

Now you can add up the items I have listed, not including any optional items) and your gonna be at around $90 not including any shipping.
But you can build it yourself and you will understand how everything works when your done.
I did not include a heat sink because in this application you don't need it.
You are using a 25amp rated SSR and mounting it on a metal enclosure.
You are drawing only 6 amps. That is less then 1/4 the rated capacity.

Because of issue that a member had on here with his homemade PID controller (almost burned his work bench up), I recommend some sort of circuit protection just in case.

[kens]

What the difference of using a relay vs SSR?
After all, a SSR actually is a relay, isn't it? (it just controlled different)

[HATCH]

a relay is a electronic/mechanical device.
a ssr is purely electronic.

a Relay has a life expectancy of 1 million cycles
a SSR is 100 million cycles.

On a PID application you may have a cycle rate of 1 per second

if you ran the SSR 24/7/365 it would be @1150 days before it failed.
The relay would fail in under two weeks

[lightman]

I've always had a lot of respect for guys who will share information on something that they do as a business.

[HATCH]

I don't really do this as a business.
At the time I started, CB didn't have anyone that sold PID completed units.
It was something that I could do in my spare time and it helped out members with being able to purchase PIDs.
I could make a few bucks IF I were able to purchase items in quantity for max cost savings.

I also know that no matter how much information I put out there on how to build a unit that I will always have members wanting to purchase pre-built units.
Time and money. Unless your talking cheap PIDs, you are only talking saving maybe $40 to $50. Most people would rather spend the money and not have to fool with the hassle of building a unit and making sure the parts were good parts.

Plus if you ever follow my posts, you will see that I have always given out information to help CB members.
Its the reason CB is great. Members helping members.

[lwknight]

What the difference of using a relay vs SSR?
After all, a SSR actually is a relay, isn't it? (it just controlled different)

The SSR ( soild state relay) will work with millivolt systems and supposed to have a very long life but not good for high amp loads like an A/C compressor.
A standard 24 volt relay can handle high amp loads without overheating. Downside is that a 24 volt transformer is required. You can also get relays with 110/220 volt coils that eliminate the need for a transformer. The 24 volt is preferred for long runs of control wire because they can use a 8 conductor 28ga wire. A 30 amp relay powering a 750 watt melting pot can last virtually forever.

[Mr_Sheesh]

The problem with relays is that the contacts can and do fail over time. Friend about died 2-3 times in a horticulture business where they were growing plants, using Propane burners to increase the CO2 levels in their room, and the relay controlling the propane feed failed in the "welded together" position. So he walked in, and didn't notice anything wrong as their CO2 alarm had apparently had its' battery die - Until he started blacking out; He was lucky in that he managed to get to the door and stagger outside, closing the door behind him, before he blacked out. Otherwise the CO2 would have killed him. Relay contacts also burn pits on the contacts to where they eventually fail to close, higher currents cause that. I avoid relays for the most part, I'm picky though. (They now have a policy that you OPEN the door before going in, and block it in the open position - And check the CO2 level FIRST THING, for some strange reason. He maybe doesn't feel the need to die yet, possibly.)

SSRs are great! They do have one issue - For very low loads, for example when lighting LED lights, they have some leakage current and can dimly light your LED light when "OFF". For a casting situation, having the heater heat up at 1/10,000th normal heat is hardly a problem, where the bedroom light being dimly on might be annoying. There are fixes for this (putting a resistor across the LED light, for example.)

Hatch - I was thinking an 8-10 Amp circuit breaker, slow-blow type, I prefer breakers over fuses, you ever see an issue with breakers in this context? I imagine not but thought I'd check, and you for CERTAIN would know, I'd think

Oh - and lwknight it's more that SSRs don't like inductive loads; An A/C compressor has a big motor in there and that's an inductive load, I'd think that is why they don't like A/C use.

[HATCH]

I install 15 amp push to reset panel mount breakers on the back panel on the PID's I build now.
I use 15 amp because this are universal and I need to cover the load to the max design current which is 15 amps.
On 220v units, I do not put a CB on them because some of those units will control more then 15 amps as I started putting 40 amp SSR's in them

Regardless I still put a Pico fuse on the PID power

[Mr_Sheesh]

Makes sense!

[MaryB]

If you build and get stuck and Hatch is busy feel free to ask me. I build them for freezer to fridge conversions for home brewers and people using solar panels. Same circuit, just a lot lower temp range!

[Mr_Sheesh]

Hmm, MaryB, for kegerators and/or brewing rigs?

[bosterr]

I agree 100% with Hatch buying PID components from Auberins. My SYL2352 controller failed in that I couldn't make it read ambient temp without adjusting the unit a lot to compensate for the error. Auberins emailed to send it in. They re-soldered the "cold junction compensator" and returned it for $5. Apparently they re-soldered it and shipped back out the same day. Talk about stellar customer service!!! In the meantime I bought another controller for a spare. I needn't have bothered, it's been running like a tank for about 8 years now.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Oh by the way those Auberins fuses are Ceramic - While you cannot see if the fuse is blown, so it's slightly inconvenient, you WANT ceramic fuses on anything higher current preferably - They are filled with sand so that when the fuse blows, it self-quenches any arcing, instead of the fuse link metal plating the inside of the fuse and the metal vapor letting the arc potentially continue for some time. Good choice on Auberins' part.

[dimaprok]

I agree 100% with Hatch buying PID components from Auberins. My SYL2352 controller failed in that I couldn't make it read ambient temp without adjusting the unit a lot to compensate for the error. Auberins emailed to send it in. They re-soldered the "cold junction compensator" and returned it for $5. Apparently they re-soldered it and shipped back out the same day. Talk about stellar customer service!!! In the meantime I bought another controller for a spare. I needn't have bothered, it's been running like a tank for about 8 years now.

I am using this one, works great for 2 years. They are all made in China. No problems with cold solder joints. Free 2 day prime shipping. $20, you can buy two for less than 1 Auberins.

Dual Display Manual/ Auto-tuning PID Temperature Controller TA4-RNR https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007JWIDCE..._IZyNAbYZVZRMY

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[razorfish]

I am using this one, works great for 2 years. They are all made in China. No problems with cold solder joints. Free 2 day prime shipping. $20, you can buy two for less than 1 Auberins.

Dual Display Manual/ Auto-tuning PID Temperature Controller TA4-RNR https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007JWIDCE..._IZyNAbYZVZRMY

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Obviously you (Dimaprok) know this, but for others looking at this particular model of PID; you need a source of DC voltage to trigger an SSR. Not a big deal if you’ve got a DC power supply in your PID doing other tasks. Note that for few bucks (about $5) more you can get a PID that uses DC voltage to trigger an SSR.


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[HATCH]

you need the SNR model not the RNR