Titan ReloadingMidSouth Shooters SupplyStainLess Steel MediaWideners
Graf & SonsInline FabricationLee PrecisionRotoMetals2

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: 9mm Luger loading problems

  1. #1
    Boolit Master DonMountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mid-Missouri
    Posts
    825

    9mm Luger loading problems

    I started loading 9mm Luger recently and have been having some problems. I started with Hornady 115 grain round nosed jacketed bullets, before I progress to some lead projectiles that I have purchased before buying a mold. Using random make brass I am shooting them in a Norinco Model 213. Winchester factory 115 grain round nose bullets shoot just fine. I have tried two powders and both of them had the same results. W-231 powder at 4.2 grains over a Remington 1-1/2 small pistol primer fire ok for me, but the limp-wristed can't get them to cycle properly. If I increase the powder a few tenths of a grain, the primers show flattening. So, I tried a slower powder, 4.5 grains of Unique with the same result. Varying the powder a little gives me either improper cycling of the gun, or flattened primer with no firing pin dent showing. So, should I try even slower powders or faster powders?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    4,559
    If you can, posting a picture or two might help with the diagnosis.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master DonMountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mid-Missouri
    Posts
    825
    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    If you can, posting a picture or two might help with the diagnosis.
    Unfortunately I don't have any means to post pictures. No camera and no cell phone. When I increase the powders to make cycling better, a lot of the primers come out flat, even flattening the firing pin holes back out. Although I can see a circular area where the firing pit hits as it is all wrinkled there in a circular pattern. But the factory Winchester rounds show a nice rounded edge primer and normal firing pin indentation on the primer. And they reject from the pistol in a robust manner from all shooters.

  4. #4
    Vendor Sponsor
    Handloader109's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,243
    Oal? Are you heavy crimping? The 231 load should be middle of the road, the unique is a starting load.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Ed_Shot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    745
    Quote Originally Posted by Handloader109 View Post
    Oal? Are you heavy crimping? The 231 load should be middle of the road, the unique is a starting load.
    Agreed, you are doing something your pistol does not like. What's the weight and diameter of your boolit? IMHO, I would use Rem 1 1/2 for 9MM if that's all I had, but I'd prefer a primer with a harder cup.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master DonMountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mid-Missouri
    Posts
    825
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed_Shot View Post
    Agreed, you are doing something your pistol does not like. What's the weight and diameter of your boolit? IMHO, I would use Rem 1 1/2 for 9MM if that's all I had, but I'd prefer a primer with a harder cup.
    You mean like a Winchester Small Rifle primer like I have to use for my Webley loads? The bullet is a jacketed Hornady round nosed 115 grain. I was trying to copy the Winchester bullet loads that I bought to try out the pistol.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Ed_Shot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    745
    Quote Originally Posted by DonMountain View Post
    You mean like a Winchester Small Rifle primer like I have to use for my Webley loads? The bullet is a jacketed Hornady round nosed 115 grain. I was trying to copy the Winchester bullet loads that I bought to try out the pistol.
    I do not recommend small rifle primers for 9MM, although I have read here that folks use them. CCI and WIN small pistol primers have a harder cup than Rem 1 1/2's. Rem 1 1/2's are the only small pistol primers that I know of that are not recommended for 40 SW by the manufacturer. 9MM is also a high pressure round.

  8. #8
    A bit hard to diagnose, but the 9mm is a higher pressure load than most pistol cartridges. I would try Power Pistol or HS6 powders. I've also had good luck with Titegroup. These work well in the 9. Use a primer that is nickel plated like CCI or Federal. The plating makes it harder than plain brass primer cups. I would stay away from rifle primers. On a different note, you might want to change your recoil spring to a slightly lighter one. It's possible that your spring is worn out and needs replacement.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master DonMountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mid-Missouri
    Posts
    825
    Quote Originally Posted by oldsalt444 View Post
    A bit hard to diagnose, but the 9mm is a higher pressure load than most pistol cartridges. I would try Power Pistol or HS6 powders. I've also had good luck with Titegroup. These work well in the 9. Use a primer that is nickel plated like CCI or Federal. The plating makes it harder than plain brass primer cups. I would stay away from rifle primers. On a different note, you might want to change your recoil spring to a slightly lighter one. It's possible that your spring is worn out and needs replacement.
    I do have a box of older CCI pistol primers, so I will try them. And the gun is older, but brand new in the box. So the spring should still be good.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    9.3X62AL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Redlands, NorKifornia
    Posts
    11,233
    CCI SP primers are harder than woodpecker lips. I agree that the listed loads for your 9mm are moderate to mild.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master knifemaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Mountain area of Northern CA.
    Posts
    750
    My 9mm load is a 124 gr. plated HP over 4.4 gr. of W-231 and Winchester SP primer. No indications of excessive pressure and perfect function. So your load with that powder should be ok with the 115 gr. bullet. Try your load with W=231 again and switch primers and see if that cures your flatten primers. Be sure not to seat the bullet too deep as that can spike the pressure.

    According to the Hodgdon reloading web site your W-231 load is well below a max load and should not be showing high pressure signs. Your primers may be the culprit giving you a false indication of high pressure.
    Last edited by knifemaker; 03-03-2018 at 07:28 PM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master DonMountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mid-Missouri
    Posts
    825
    I had loaded 5 more 9mm Luger cases with CCI 400 Small Rifle primers to see what they would do, and tried 4.2 grains of Bullseye as a lower, middle of the road load. The primers look much better now, more like the factory Winchester loads do. And ejection is much more positive and will probably provide better ejection for the limp-wristed shooters in the family. So, I will work on these loads by trying some different, harder pistol primers and some other rifle primers and some different faster burning powders. But I am running out of these Hornady jacketed bullets and will have to get into my stash of powder coated cast lead projectiles pretty soon. And go all through this again to see what powders work there?

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    723
    Limp wristed shooting is frequently a problem with some guns. The Tokarev pistol was one of those.

    In my experience it is better to load heavier bullets for those who do not hold the pistol firmly.

    If they are to be firing the pistol a lot then I change to a lower rated recoil spring and I just make sure to not load it with +P loads.

    And, there are some pistols that do not respond to anything and the pistol is not fired by the lim wristed.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Soda Springs, Idaho
    Posts
    793
    I load a 128 gr. cast HP that's powder coated with 4.3 grs of 231 & a Winchester SP primer & get 100% reliability in both of my 9mm's. When my daughter & anther lady shoots that load in their 9's they can have some jams but when I shoot the same load in their guns, no problem!! The limp wrist can cause problems with about any semi auto, I've seen it happen many times in USPSA matches when shooters go to weak hand only & end up with a stove pipe or other type of jam. You have to maintain resistance to the gun or the slide isn't going to cycle correctly. When I load a 140 gr bullet for the women the problem goes away. Changing springs can also solve the problem.

    Dick
    Last edited by sixshot; 03-05-2018 at 03:03 PM.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
    winelover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    North Central Arkansas
    Posts
    1,629
    COAL is critical with the 9 mm cartridge and you did not mention that. Seating too deep will increase pressure and it's warning signs. Also what method are you using for crimping? I recommend taper crimping for all pistol cartridges.

    I own a half dozen nines and use the same loadings for all, without issue. Usually, I opt for CCI SP primers. However, I have used Tula's when primers were hard to find. My standard load for Unique is 5.0 grains with a 125 RN and a COAl of 1.10 inches....as long as it passes the "plunk test".

    Winelover

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    713
    Changing primers may just be masking a problem, your loads should not flatten even a Fed primer if everything else is good.

    Pls post up that OAL.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master DonMountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mid-Missouri
    Posts
    825
    The COL that I am using with the Hornady 115 FMJ-RN, No. 35557 bullet is 1.100". And I measure about every fifth one to make sure they are correct. I am using the standard factory taper crimp die that came in my Hornady 3-die set I bought about 25 years ago.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    9.3X62AL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Redlands, NorKifornia
    Posts
    11,233
    For the O/P--can you advise the nature of the primer flattening? Is there primer cratering? I am wondering if your firing pin aperture is over-sized for the pin it is supporting. Flattened primers can mean a number of things.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    713
    1.100” seems a little short, but not enough make a big difference with such a small charge, I might try 1.125” and see if it’ll feed.

    Taper crimp is right, and over crimping with a taper crimp won’t generally cause excessive pressure, it swayed down the bullet and the brass springs back a bit making things too loose, or at least that’s my understanding.

    Tell me about the scale, or scales you’re using to weigh the charge.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master DonMountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mid-Missouri
    Posts
    825
    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    For the O/P--can you advise the nature of the primer flattening? Is there primer cratering? I am wondering if your firing pin aperture is over-sized for the pin it is supporting. Flattened primers can mean a number of things.
    The primers have the firing pin dent flattened back out so the primer is level again. But I can see the wrinkling around where the firing pin hits.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check