RepackboxMidSouth Shooters SupplyLoad DataLee Precision
Titan ReloadingReloading EverythingInline FabricationSnyders Jerky
RotoMetals2 Wideners
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: NOE 360-180-WFN Handgun Deer Hunt

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy

    45&30-30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Montana, USA
    Posts
    191

    NOE 360-180-WFN Handgun Deer Hunt

    I had killed four deer in the last 24 hours and was about to take my fifth. I was fortunate to be one of four veterans to take part in a hunt organized by Montana Wounded Warriors. (No connection with Wounded Warrior Project.) We were on a private ranch, in a valley in Southwestern Montana, during the rut.

    The deer are so plentiful in this area that we were allotted four does and one buck and all five tags were over the counter. I saw more mature bucks in two days than I have seen in a lifetime of hunting. My guide, appropriately named Hunter, was a classy young man with a wildlife biology degree and a quiet excitement for the hunt that was contagious. He said, "It's too big to shoot.", so many times it seemed like a mantra he was repeating. You see, we were the only ones allowed the use of firearms, all others being relegated to archery. The deer had to be no more than a four point and at least four and one half years old.

    Prior to arriving at the hunt I asked if I could use a pistol to take the deer. I was granted permission as long as I was able to demonstrate proficiency at the mandatory confirmation of zero on the first morning. I was also asked to bring a rifle because of the chance for long shots and limited time on the ranch. I brought three guns.

    The first was a blued 10" Contender in 357 Magnum with a Leupold 4x scope. I had recently reamed it to 357 Maximum. The inspiration for this pistol was an article written by John O'Renick titled Magnum to Maximum for Handloader Magazine. I found the article on Mike Bellm's website. I did not test any 357 Maximum loads after reaming it because I wanted to see for myself what Veral Smith, Marshall Stanton and others on this site have said about the use of a WFN in 35 caliber at moderate velocities on deer. So I used my 357 Magnum load of a NOE 360-180-WFN GC at 13 BHN using 15.7 grains of H110 with a Federal small pistol primer and Starline brass for 1500 fps. This load producing the best 100 yard groups of all primer and powder combinations, with a best three shot group of one and one quarter inches and five shots opening it to two inches on the nose. The next gun was the newest to me.

    A stainless Encore pistol in .223 Remington was not on my list of guns to get, anywhere. The price for the like new barrel and frame was less than a factory barrel, so I had to buy it. I ordered a 15" 308 Winchester stainless fluted barrel and a Simmons 4X pistol scope. I loaded 125 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips with CCI standard large primers and IMR 4895 that averaged 2775 fps. Good enough, next is the long gun.

    I borrowed my son's stainless Winchester Model 70 Classic in 270 Winchester and used an older box of Winchester 130 grain Silvertips that grouped favorably. The scope was a Nikon 3-9X with BDC. I have actually shot this rifle as much or more than any of my current hunting rifles. All three guns grouped well and I was given the thumbs up to shoot any of them. I decided on the Encore first based on the area we were assigned for the first night.

    A cold front moved in that afternoon as we made our way to our seated position. From our position under an old Locust we watched fence lines, cultivated fields and an area around a pond. We watched as 30 deer turned in to 40 then over 50 deer for 300 yards around us in a semi circle and all of them to young to shoot. One of the other guys reported counting 500 deer from his position.

    While there I watched as the largest buck I have ever seen walk up within 35 yards of us. He looked fake. Like a joke. Like a yearling with an obscenely tall, thick, wide and perfectly symmetrical rack. It just looked wrong. Hunter did not need to say, "It's too big to shoot.", but he did.

    A couple hours of this and I could not feel my fingers and I told Hunter I needed to move or I would not be able to steady the pistol to shoot. Fortunately he saw three deer about 400 yards away that would allow us to warm up and maybe one was old enough to shoot. We moved within 200 yards of them walking bent over at the waist.

    I was finally in position to take my first deer, a doe, with a pistol. And I missed. Bad. So bad the deer didn't move. I reloaded, fired and it went down but not out. I moved to a steadier position 20 yards closer. I quickly realized what was going wrong with my shooting. It is what plagues me every time I miss, not calling the shot. Which translates to: I was blinking before or at the shot. You can't call the shot if your eyes are closed, even slightly before or at the shot. I refocused mentally and eyes wide open through the recoil watched as the deer went down for good. I have found that the intense awareness and focus on cross hairs or sights I have in practice has not made it to the field every time. The next 15 minutes would prove I had ended this bad habit.

    From behind us another doe came out of the wood line 189 yards away. One shot to the heart lung area and she went straight down. Five minutes later a second doe came out and nearly stood where the first deer was. I aimed at the same spot and she died 15 yards away. We had three deer on the ground. We loaded them up and headed to the meat locker.

    The next morning was to be spent looking for a buck. I brought the 270 as the distance was going to be 300 yards. We watched many nice bucks walk by. While trying to get in to a decent firing position I missed an opportunity at what Hunter called the nicest four point he has ever seen, then he described it. I never saw it, but it still hurts to think about it. I have always been a meat hunter, I never thought a deer would make me feel like that. Especially one I never saw. We returned to the meat locker empty handed.

    When we pulled in one of the other veterans commented that there were some deer out in a field about 400 yards away. I started glassing and watched as so many, to big to shoot deer, were chasing does around in this field. I saw what I thought was a nice four point. Hunter started glassing and after 15 minutes it returned. He got me on to it, ranged it and I had my buck, at the meat locker. One left.

    That afternoon our group lost a guide to some other business on the ranch so we had to double up. I was asked if I would bring my rifle because the other veteran still had a couple of deer to get and we would be in a long range set up again. I agreed and asked if I could also bring the 357 in case a short shot presented itself. All agreed but I knew the chances were close to zero. I love being wrong.

    The range finder said 75 yards. We were moving to our final position. Not only was the pistol in my pack unloaded, she was standing frozen just inside the wood line staring at three guys on open ground. I put the rifle down, took off my pack, loaded the Contender, laid out my pack as a shooting rest, could not find her in the scope, put the pistol down picked up my binoculars, found her, picked up the pistol and shot.

    I don't know what made me do it, but at the last moment I moved the cross hairs off the heart area and on to the shoulder. The bullet hit where I aimed. The doe ran 100 yards and died. Reflecting back on it I think I did not trust the cast bullet to take out the heart lung area and to make a quick kill. I wanted to anchor the doe in case a follow up was necessary. What I found proved otherwise.

    I have never seen a shoulder blade so broken. It was as if you dropped a dinner plate and it shattered in to many pieces on the ground. It took the top of the heart out. It ripped a three quarters of an inch hole through the lungs. It broke a rib and left a large exit hole. I will shoot the heart lung area next time.

    This was a great hunt. It was not expected but appreciated. I am grateful I have the chance to relive it here with the forum members.
    Last edited by 45&30-30; 02-28-2018 at 10:53 PM. Reason: Punctuation
    I Like Guns - Steve Lee

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Soda Springs, Idaho
    Posts
    1,093
    Very nice write up & glad you got the chance to make this hunt! Sounds like some of the Montana area I've hunted before, lots of deer. Thanks for your service & those who were along with you, great hunt.

    Forgot, I've used that exact same bullet in my 357 Maximum but mine was a Ruger 10 1/2" revolver, the bullet worked great, just like yours.

    Dick

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy mike69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    154
    Congrats and thanks for sharing I just got that mold for my 357 mag for next deer season . The 357 max is on my list I want to get for my encore .

  4. #4
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    collins ms.
    Posts
    2,220
    Congrats on a great hunt and some fine handgun shooting.

    Glad you got to go that hunt and thanks for your service!

  5. #5
    Boolit Master



    Bzcraig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Nampa, ID
    Posts
    3,747
    Excellent article, felt right there with you!
    "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same......." - Ronald Reagan

    "It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather, we should thank God that such men lived." - George Patton

    The second amendment is a nail on which hangs a picture of freedom - member Alex 4x4 Tver, Russia

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,185
    2 one-shot quick kills at 189 yards! The bullet is only going around 1000-1050 fps at that range. (I get that velocity at 300 yards with my Rossi). Wow! Good shooting! And, that bullet once again proves itself!

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    North central Ohio/Roane County, W.Va.
    Posts
    1,438
    A fine tale, thanks.
    “Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.”
    ― Mark Twain
    W8SOB

  8. #8
    Boolit Master



    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    1720 miles East of Wall Drug, North of Cooperstown, NY
    Posts
    1,084
    Thank you for Serving!! Congrats on your great hunt and some fine shooting with Handgun and Rifle!

    Great write up! I to felt I was right there.

    I agree completely on the effectiveness of the 35 cal WFN at moderate velocities!
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Je suis Charlie
    Remember Lavoy!
    I'll cling to my God and my guns, and you can keep the "Change".

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy

    45&30-30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Montana, USA
    Posts
    191
    Hey all, thank you for the great comments!

    outdoorfan I just wanted to clear something up. The three deer taken at the 189 to 200 yards was done with the 308 Encore Pistol. The last deer described is taken with the 357 Magnum Contender Pistol. Which leads to my next thought. I believe, with what I now know, I could have taken these long shots with the 357 Maximum loaded to 1800 fps or a 357 magnum rifle loaded to the same velocity. Running the numbers on a ballistic calculator 1500 fps at the muzzle would be 1331 fps at 75 yards and 1800 fps at the muzzle would be 1310 fps at 200 yards. I hope my line of thought and where I came up with these numbers is clear.

    Thank you again.
    I Like Guns - Steve Lee

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,185
    Oops. Sorry that I misunderstood. Still good shooting, though!

    I shoot a similar bullet in my Rossi 92 357 magnum. It's the MP-180-RF, or something like that. Basically a 190 grain (with 50/50 alloy) wfn with a .28 meplat. Very similar to the NOE bullet, right?

    I fire mine at 1800 fps at the muzzle. I've chronographed these at 100, 200, and 300 yards. Basically, about 1400 at 100, 1150 at 200, and 1000-1050 at 300 yards. The BC is around .16 G1 in my 1-30 twist Rossi. The bullets I tested were 9 bhn.

    I've tested these in milk jugs down to 800-900 fps, and the nose just starts to rivet at those low velocities. My 9 bhn bullets show some expansion at 1000-1100 fps. Your 13 bhn ones should show some expansion down to maybe 1100-1200. Just a guess, there. I'm pretty sure that this bullet at 9 bhn is deadly to at least 200 yards with good shot placement, if it's started around 1800 fps.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,185
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20171117_085257-2016x1512.jpg 
Views:	46 
Size:	169.9 KB 
ID:	215479Click image for larger version. 

Name:	c358-180 rf.jpg 
Views:	33 
Size:	24.8 KB 
ID:	215480

    A loaded 190 grainer, for reference, and the point of impact from this past fall (25 yards) of a small buck that this bullet took. Blood was everywhere!

    And, according to the milk jug testing, penetration is superb at a whole range of velocities.

    Anyway, my point is to have full confidence in your load and gun!

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy

    45&30-30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Montana, USA
    Posts
    191
    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorfan View Post
    Very similar to the NOE bullet, right?
    Definitely.

    And thank you for sharing that data. It always impresses me to see the retained velocity of a projectile once it goes sub-sonic.
    I Like Guns - Steve Lee

  13. #13
    Moderator Emeritus


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SW Montana
    Posts
    12,474
    Nice going, I am starting to see many whitetail dropping their antlers 30 Miles E of Butte.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  14. #14
    Boolit Bub Catpop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    coastal NC
    Posts
    47
    Nice write up! But most thanks for serving to protect our blessed way of life in the great USA! May the deer keep filling your pistol sights! God Bless you, catpop

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Idaho Mule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Viola, Idaho
    Posts
    1,000
    Thank you for your service, and the great story. Looks like you have a better than average grasp on this cast bullet stuff and I look forward to hearing of more of your hunting adventures. JW

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy

    45&30-30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Montana, USA
    Posts
    191
    Thank you again all. Yes the deer have dropped there antlers. Just need some snow to leave so we can find them.
    I have learned most of what I know about cast from this site. It is a gold mine of information.
    I Like Guns - Steve Lee

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check