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Thread: School me on the 450 Bushmaster AR platform

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    School me on the 450 Bushmaster AR platform

    Moderators: if this is in the wrong place please move it.

    I have been looking to get an upper in 450 Bushmaster for deer hunting in lower Michigan where it is legal to use.
    I have the tooling to swage jacketed .452 boolits in both a 3/4E ojive and a T/C nose. I can make any weight of these in either a soft point or hollow point, with the option of putting an airsoft BB in the hollow point if so desired. Has anyone had any experience running either of these boolit shapes in an AR?

    I may be persuaded into sending a few boolits of each shape out to a member here for feed and function testing if anyone wants to help me out.

    I just do not want to drop a pile of cash on an upper to find out that I have to either buy factory bullets or another point form die.

    Thanks, Pipefitter.

  2. #2
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    Be sure your upper does not have a gain twist bbl (many do) that don't like cast. (ask me how I know!)

    I'd skip the 450 BM and buy a 450 SOCOM.

    Uses .458 not .452 bullets and cast works just fine.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Southern Michigan (shotgun area) regulations state that only straight wall cartridges are legal for deer hunting. The 458 SOCOM is a bottleneck case, which is not kosher in this part of the state for deer hunting (although if you really felt like it you can shoot rabbits and squirrels with it. Go figure.) I swage .452 boolits, not .458

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Pipefitter you have saved me from starting a thread. I am tagging this one so I can get the same info you are looking for. So that means if you learn it on your own without the help of others jumping in come back and fill me in will ya. Thanks

    That said I am also looking to learn about the 458 SOCOM. I am going to be building one last ar15 platform but this time its for me to keep. So far I have 458socom vs 50beowulf vs 450bushmaster. But I do like straight wall cases.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I am curious why there isn't more interest in the .45 Raptor. I'm not an AR guy so no interest there but even for a bolt gun it seems like a good idea. It uses the .452" bullet instead of .458". Not sure if .458" is just too large for the brass or if there is another reason. I'd prefer .458" just 'cause but there's lots of 0.452" moulds around too and Accurate will make what a guy wants.

    I was toying with the idea of a single shot or bolt gun in .444 Rimless so same idea but .44 cal. Might still do it one day.

    Not a criticism of .450 Bushmaster or .458 Socom just that it seems like a good option using readily available brass.

    Sorry, a little off topic.

    Longbow

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I bought a 450 Bushmaster upper a year or so ago, and it has worked great for me. I use the rifle with a day/night digital scope for pig hunting. We can hunt pigs at night here too. Anyway I have no complaints about it. The round does take the pigs out easily, and it is probably overkill on the pigs. But when you encounter a really big pig you think differently then. I used to use a 35 Remington rifle and a .308 Win rifle for pig hunting, but I really like how the 450 Bushmaster performs on the pigs though.

    Reloading has not been a problem. If you have reloaded handgun rounds that have straight sides too, then the 450 Bushmaster is no big deal for reloading either. My rifle hasn't been picky about the reloads and powder charge levels either. it works over a broad range of reloads that I have used so far.

    They do have factory ammo available. Heck even Cabelas sells it too. So getting armor for it isn't a problem. Some gun stores also stock and sell it around here as well.
    Last edited by Earlwb; 03-01-2018 at 07:09 PM. Reason: add more information

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Be sure your upper does not have a gain twist bbl (many do) that don't like cast. (ask me how I know!)

    I'd skip the 450 BM and buy a 450 SOCOM.

    Uses .458 not .452 bullets and cast works just fine
    .


    roger that. ive got a 458 socom and have yet to find a cast load it DOESN'T like

  8. #8
    Boolit Master pmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outer Rondacker View Post
    Pipefitter you have saved me from starting a thread. I am tagging this one so I can get the same info you are looking for. So that means if you learn it on your own without the help of others jumping in come back and fill me in will ya. Thanks

    That said I am also looking to learn about the 458 SOCOM. I am going to be building one last ar15 platform but this time its for me to keep. So far I have 458socom vs 50beowulf vs 450bushmaster. But I do like straight wall cases.
    I'm in the same boat too. I'd like to get going with a big bore AR15 myself. My problem is I like parts of all 3. I like the shoulder on the .458 but wonder why it calls for a large pistol primer. I'd like to shoot 250 - 350 grain boolits in .452 cal. So the 450 Bushmaster seems to be the way to go for me. But a lot of 450 BM's have slower 1-24 twist barrels and they can't use GI mags. ,I haven't thought much about the 50 Beowulf because I don't have any moulds in 50 cal. -
    Oh great, another thread that makes me spend money.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    When I started this thread it was not my intention to make it a "what cartridge is better" thread. Michigan law says that where I live and hunt only straight walled cartridges of a certain length are legal to hunt deer with. I have Dave Corbin tooling to make .452 swaged jacketed boolits (of any weight I want between 200gn to 450gn). I have an AR lower and was looking to put a 450 Bushmaster upper on it to hunt deer with. The 450 Bushmaster falls into the categories of being legal where I live and hunt, projectiles are also within the manufacturing capabilities of what I have on hand.

    458 SOCOM= bottleneck cartridge= not kosher here....
    45 Raptor- Looks like it will take an AR10 lower= I don't have an AR10 lower.
    I do not have 429 swaging dies, nor do I wish to invest over $800 to buy a set, so anything 44 caliber is out.


    What I was looking for was a member who might have had experience using either a TC or RN soft or hollow point in a AR 450 Bushmaster upper. Lacking that, a member who would like a few free bullets to test for feed and function in their AR.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    I'm in SW MI and understand what you're getting at. Lots of great rounds I can't use unless I go elsewhere. 45 Raptor on an ar10 platform won't feed as well as a 450 BM or 45Velociraptor (like the raptor with slightly less PSI and COL) on an ar15 platform. I have much more 44 stuff so I went that route with a couple of 44 wildcats that are basically the 44 version of the bushmaster and raptor. In the AR15 mine will feed wide flat nose bullets or SWC type along with xtp's 265fp-innerlock bullets. I'd think you'd be fine with the 450BM and those bullets.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Hold up. I do not want to hijack this thread but I have to ask. 45 Velociraptor you say?? Correct me if I am wrong but that does shoot a .452 projectiles right??? Straight wall cases. Fits into an ar15 lower. I need more info on this round.

    What is the difference in the 45 velociraptor and 450 bm?

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outer Rondacker View Post
    Hold up. I do not want to hijack this thread but I have to ask. 45 Velociraptor you say?? Correct me if I am wrong but that does shoot a .452 projectiles right??? Straight wall cases. Fits into an ar15 lower. I need more info on this round.

    What is the difference in the 45 velociraptor and 450 bm?
    The 45 Velociraptor is the 45 raptor with slightly less allowable COL so it fits in an AR15 mag and slightly less pressure over the raptor (I think it's about 5-10K less) and use the higher pressure rounded lug bolt and extensions. 450BM uses a basically standard bolt and extension so the pressure is limited to 40K psi. A good compare chart is here http://mdws.forumchitchat.com/post/p...pid=1294449867

    The 450BM has alot going for it especially factory ammo.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Like the OP stated, in his state straight walled cartridges are legal for hunting at certain times, etc. Thus the 450 Bushmaster became popular for mainly that reason. Besides it was the original first AR15 big bore hunting cartridge. It does work with standard AR15 lowers and you don't need special buffer springs, gas porting, either. It does use a special bolt though, so you need a new bolt for it. You could basically just get a barrel and bolt (maybe a new gas port block too) and pretty much have all you need to convert a AR15 over to the 450 Bushmaster. It does require a modified magazine though as it is larger than than the 223 rounds. You need to use a single shot or single stack type of follower in the magazine. You can use plastic magazines but the pressure on the feed lips could be a problem thus they suggest using metal magazines instead. Now I have found that you need to polish the magazine feed lips and contact points so that the cartridge will feed properly. The metal magazines tend to have sharp edges and raised bits that cause the rounds to stick in the magazine. But other than that it works fine. My rifle upper is the Bushmaster brand upper and it has a regular rifled bore without the gain twist to it. I haven't seen anyone selling a gain twist rifled bore for the .450 Bushmaster, but I haven't looked all that hard for one though.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    The upper receiver ejection port is opened up slightly on the 450BM or any big bore upper. The actual dust cover is the same, but the recessed area behind it has been relieved slightly for the fatter cases. You can open up a standard upper but with parts as cheap as they have been lately I wouldn't bother with it. What makes them feed so well is the difference between the ID of the barrel extension and the ID of the chamber mouth isn't very much. Basically if it makes it past the barrel extension there isn't much for the bullet or case to snag on.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Mine is absolutely flawless for pig hunting. Granted it tends to be overkill for pigs, but none of them ran off after being shot with the .450 BM.
    I use a ATN digital night scope and it is legal to hunt pigs at night out here in Texas. Especially since that is when the pigs are out and about anyway.
    I wound up with a lot of meat in the fridge and I still gave away a lot for charity too. I was able to recover one of the Hornady 250 grain bullets from one pig's skull as the bullet fell out on the floor at the abattoir. Yeah I know the pig picture is a little one. I have misplaced my other pics at the moment.


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  16. #16
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    I think you just decided for me my next AR buildassembly, Earl.
    Good work. Every sow you get keeps hundreds from being born maybe we hope.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Well, it finally happened. Had to take my lovely wife to a Dr. appointment on Wednesday, and made the trip to GLFA in Sparta, Michigan afterwards. Got a 450 Bushmaster upper with an 18" stainless barrel, a few mags, and 7 boxes of Hornady black 250gn ammo.
    Ordered a Vortex scope and rings from Optics Planet this morning, with free 2 day shipping it should be here by tomorrow afternoon (I was expecting delivery on Monday or Tuesday, with the holiday weekend we will see).
    I should have enough time next week to make a trip to the range to unload some of the factory rounds and then see if my home swaged boolits will feed in this upper.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Nice. I think you got a good combination there to play with. You will be having a lot of fun with it.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Congrats on the upper, I think you'll like it. The 450BM has a lot going for it.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Yes congrats and please let use know how the swaged bullet works and the twist rate you went with. Thanks
    Stop being blinded by your own ignorance.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check