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Thread: 7.62x51 NATO (.308 WCF) in the Springfield M1A

  1. #381
    Boolit Mold
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    there we go. Only prob is pic is rotated to left 90 deg

  2. #382
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluehorse View Post
    there we go. Only prob is pic is rotated to left 90 deg
    If you double click the photo it will show up right. I think who ever designed the photo software was a liberal with left leaning tendencies.
    Good judgment comes from experience.
    Experience comes from poor judgment.

  3. #383
    Boolit Buddy JackQuest's Avatar
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    Spreadsheet of BruceB loading data

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletFactory View Post
    I agree. A summary post by someone qualified to construct one would be great.
    BruceB is no longer with us, a great loss. Having decided to keep my SOCOM, I extracted Bruce's posts, edited his comments for significant information about each load, and compiled everything into an Excel spreadsheet.

    There are a number of Sheets: the "Original" which is 128 lines - 1 for each load documented in this thread. Then I broke out each bullet into its own Sheet, and each powder into its own Sheet, to facilitate researching the information.

    The Sheets are organized left to right - first bullets by ascending weights, and powders by relative burn rate, fast to slow.

    UPDATE - revised spreadsheet in post #389 (can't firgure out how to delete this attachment).
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by JackQuest; 01-29-2017 at 09:56 AM. Reason: update

  4. #384
    Boolit Buddy JackQuest's Avatar
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    Those with much better Excel skills can begin the task of creating graphs and such from the data (post 383). My personal focus is on 311291 and H335/WC844. I have had good luck (no leading) using the copper-hardened alloys described elsewhere in this forum. Mine happen to cast, with GC and lube close to 181gr.
    Last edited by JackQuest; 01-22-2017 at 01:02 PM. Reason: typo

  5. #385
    Banned

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    Thanks.

  6. #386
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackQuest View Post
    BruceB is no longer with us, a great loss. Having decided to keep my SOCOM, I extracted Bruce's posts, edited his comments for significant information about each load, and compiled everything into an Excel spreadsheet...
    You're THE man, JackQuest. Thank you, very much.

  7. #387
    Boolit Master

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    Would someone be so kind as to open up the Excel spreadsheet, and post it in a different manner? I can't seem to open it on my computer or on my iPhone. I would've appreciated greatly!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I shoot so that I can handload.

  8. #388
    Boolit Buddy JackQuest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatelvis View Post
    Would someone be so kind as to open up the Excel spreadsheet, and post it in a different manner? ...
    What format do you want? The file is a .zip compressed file, so you need an app to unzip it. I don't think you want to even bother trying to look at a spreadsheet with over 100 lines on an iPhone, but if you do you need GoodReader from the Apple app store. I can provide the file either as an .xls file (Excel) or as a Numbers file for Macintosh. Let me know which you prefer.

  9. #389
    Boolit Buddy JackQuest's Avatar
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    Looking at the data I realized I have not created a Sheet for 4320 powder. That has been corrected in the attachment. Also, studying the data tells me that 4320 is going to take more test loads and range time to find a "sweet spot" in the loading, if one even exists. I think unless you are sitting on a big stash of 4320 you would be better off tinkering with some other powder.

    Please note the size of the file has increased due to the revision.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #390
    Boolit Buddy JackQuest's Avatar
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    In Post #10 BruceB tells us THE LOAD that gave him the very smallest group at 50 yards from all of this experimentation. Note that this was really early in the process; Bruce kept chasing this 'magic' group with other powder/bullet combinations and never quite achieved parity.

    4/28/2006 - 311467 Loverin bullet cast from dropped WW, sized 0.311, with "old" H4831, 35.0 grains and a CCI 34 primer. 0.6" ten shot group. This is a nominal 180 grain bullet though it does appear in the data ranging from 167 to 180 grains. I could not find the seating OAL Bruce used for this load.

  11. #391
    Boolit Buddy JackQuest's Avatar
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    Another easy-to-miss observation that I had special interest in was from 7/30/2006 - Post #49 - where Bruce compared bullets sized 0.311 to bullets sized 0.3095 and found no difference in performance. This is important because you may have a sizing die, as do I, at 0.309 or 0.3095 and not really looking forward to getting another die.
    Last edited by JackQuest; 01-29-2017 at 09:54 AM.

  12. #392
    Boolit Mold
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    Thanks JackQuest this is great! Just getting back into casting and the M1A is my main focus.
    Rodney

  13. #393
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for your load development work BruceB. Someone is trading me for a old anvil I acquired years ago, getting a almost new M1A out of the trade. After firing the first 200 or so rounds, thinking I'm going to follow you down the CB bullet road. This M1A is the shorter Scout model and has ended up being unfired in a safe for the last few years. The anvil is a Hay Buden that came from Aurora to was salvaged to Bodie and came from one of the last 3 families still in town during WW2. Person I acquired the anvil from still has his school work still is displayed in the Bodie school house, provenance is no problem with this one family is well known. Mark Twain was long gone from Aurora in 1907 Number on the anvil dates it to 1907.( see his section on this in the book roughing it ) Still lots of Nevada history there. Was not going to sell or trade it until I got that kind of a offer from another Nevada resident that appreciated such things. I've got to get some fresh 7.62 X 51 brass as well. ( where did yours come from ?? ) I plan on doing the cast on my 550B with H335 so it flows through the powder measure well, got a 8 lb. of it still on the shelf to start out with. My mold is a old Lyman 311041AX double cavity with gas check. Start out using a mold that I have. Still finishing up my new cannon barrel, 1 5/8" Id + bore the trunion. So the first M1A rounds won't get loaded until spring. I'm going to continue to watch this thread, see where you go with it. A visit to Renown in Reno over last Christmas was a setback for all of this stuff.
    Chris

  14. #394
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    Unfortunately, BriceB passed recently. We all appreciate his work in experimenting with the M1A. He was a valuable member of our casting community. Thanks again Bruce.
    I shoot so that I can handload.

  15. #395
    Boolit Master
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    Last Christmas, I almost got there first, care flight, and open heart later, somehow I made it. Would have liked to have had a chance to meet up with BruceB, by his writings, quite a interesting person. I still thank him for all of the work and will use some of it as I move forward with my project. Somehow I missed pages of this thread that showed up on the second try.
    Chris

  16. #396
    Boolit Master
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    GONRA suggests BruceB (GONRA's real name initials! ??? But NOT GONRA!)
    keep that "Dacron Fluff" REALLY Tiny (or better yet get rid of it)
    since any fillers ARE REALLY DANGEROUS in necked cartridges!
    KABOOM!!

  17. #397
    Boolit Master ammohead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GONRA View Post
    GONRA suggests BruceB (GONRA's real name initials! ??? But NOT GONRA!)
    keep that "Dacron Fluff" REALLY Tiny (or better yet get rid of it)
    since any fillers ARE REALLY DANGEROUS in necked cartridges!
    KABOOM!!
    BruceB cannot answer your post but I will. Having had several discussions on this subject Mr B, Buckshot and myself agreed that the amount of dacron should fill all of the space not occupied by powder, from the top of the powder to the bottom of bullet. Enough to hold the powder in place but not so much as to be compressed. Never use so small amount as to leave any unoccupied space below the bullet.
    Use of dacron in straight wall cases especially in older barrels is NOT recommended.
    With fast burning powders such as red dot, bullseye, unique etc dacron is not needed or recommended.

  18. #398
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Sorry GONRA, not correct. A dacron filler, when used correctly, in bottle necked cases and straight walled cases is absolutely NOT REALLY DANGEROUS. Like most anything we do in reloading if used incorrectly it can be dangerous but when used correctly the use of the filler is entirely safe.

    Ammohead is correct that the dacron must be a filler filling the space between powder and bullet and not a wad tamped down to merely keep the powder in place. However, while sometimes "not recommended" a dacron filler used in straight walled cases, such as the old BP cartridges, with an appropriate powder is also entirely safe. Ammohead is correct stating; "With fast burning powders such as red dot, bullseye, unique etc dacron is not needed or recommended."

    The proper use of fillers, especially a dacron filler, is explained here; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...use-of-fillers
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  19. #399
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I have used fillers in several straight wall large bore BP rifle cartridges. The small amout of smokeless will not shoot uniformly if powder is allowed to travel in case. I don't care what others say, it has worked for me for years. I would not advise others to do it because I don't know what level of loader they are. I've never had any problems but evidently others have and I have no reason not to believe them. I don't personally know anybody that had trouble of this kind.

  20. #400
    Boolit Mold
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    I’m new here and have spent some time reading this thread hoping to glean useful information. And I most certainly did learn a lot. I truly regret not joining earlier and I regret I never had the pleasure of meeting or conversing BruceB.
    I’m going to use the afore mentioned info to build some ammo for my M1A. I’ll report the results soon after.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check