7.62x51 NATO (.308 WCF) in the Springfield M1A

[K7addict]

First off, thank you to BruceB & everyone one else for their work towards establishing the baseline data for this project.

I finally got down to loading and shooting cast in my rifle today. My 'load' is still a work in progress but I wanted to share what I had.

M1a Scout Squad - Walnut stock
Scope - Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 duplex reticle
(Misc: Sadlak Piston/Sadlak Spring guide)

Boolit: Lyman 311291
Sized: .311
Alloy: simple WW & water quenched
Lube: Lee LA
Primer: Federal LR magnum
Powder: IMR 4895
Brass: FC (FL sized with X-die)

I shot 5 shot groups at 25 yards to test functioning then moved to 50 yards. All loads functioned & locked bolt on empty magazine. POA was always the center of the target dot.

To be fair, the wind was a-blowin' my target a good bit so I was squeezing shots off when I could in the 52* weather. I was shooting prone using a ruck sack up front & a sand sock in the rear. No excuses for my poor shots but it's practice and testing together.

*I did note 2 rounds that did not cycle or eject the brass & those shots went way off. One at 30.5 grains & one at 31.5 grains.







All brass looked good, I'll be testing between 27.5-28 a little more and moving from 32-35 grains on the next outing. I had my chronograph but was limited on time so I didn't set it up. I'll use my chronograph on my next outing.

[BulletFactory]

Which mold and powder would you guys recommend...I'm trying to "copy" the M118 round. In other words, I'm done paying 40$/100 for SMK rounds.

Yes, I'm reading the thread. Been here all morning.

Gear, thanks again for all the help a couple years back with the .40. It's working perfectly now in both guns.

[BulletFactory]

If we are using the SMK BTHP as a benchmark, then why do the cast boolits look so much different than a jacketed round? Seems like the first place you'd start, is with a cast boolit that looks exactly like a SMK, but with lube grooves, and then go from there. Most cast rifle rounds seem to look like old revolver bullets. I don't get it.

[30CalTy]

Been messing around with the the 311291 GC (water quenched, Lee alox, sized .310) and IMR4895 with no great results. Rifle is an M1A Supermatch w/ iron sights, prone and slung in. Rem 9 1/2 primer and FC cases with primer pockets cut to seat about 8 thou below flush.

Charges went from 26.0 up through 28grs on first test. Feed fine all the way through and locked open consistently at 27grs. Felt short at 26 but still cycled. Recoil was a little inconsistent at times w/ fliers... There was some promise at 27 grs which I'll follow up on (1.5-2MoA; scope mount inbound).

Got some Dacron into the mix at 28-30grs which seemed to help w/ making recoil feel bigger and consistent. More like the 155 J-bullet loads I have used frequently (primers in this case look nothing like the flattened J-bullet primers). Didn't seem to matter on paper though. Shot 10 and 15 round groups at 3-4MoA.

No bore leading either session, but the flash suppressor was definitely less lead shimmered at that higher end.

I've got gobs of surplus Reloader 15 that I'll try next and a decent quantity of IMR4064. Also have a lot of something close to SR4759 and a jug of 2400 (maybe I can make a good slowfire practice load). Would rather stay out of the various 1lb cans I have. Any thoughts on the surplus Re15 and IMR4064?

Also, I have been getting some lead on the case necks. Any thoughts on that? I've got a very tight match chamber and have to seat the 311291 to the crimp groove to keep it out of the rifling. I'm not too concerned about it; I use a chamber brush and clean the necks off.

[Wayne S]

If we are using the SMK BTHP as a benchmark, then why do the cast boolits look so much different than a jacketed round? Seems like the first place you'd start, is with a cast boolit that looks exactly like a SMK, but with lube grooves, and then go from there. Most cast rifle rounds seem to look like old revolver bullets. I don't get it.

THE bullet that "looks" like it would "shoot" looks and the M118 is the 311365 but better shooting[accurate] bullets are the 311299 and 31141 designs. Do a "search" for 311365, several discussions on the design.

[BulletFactory]

Will do.

Last week I went on Accurate Molds catalog, and spotted a 31-170b. This looks like a SMK with the .18 meplat which is as small as Tom can make them. I plan on powder coating this, so the groove looks right. I did want a gas check design,. so I asked him about it, and he came up with the new 31-170BG, and I ordered one. Hopefully the wait time will be short. Jon Wolfe of M14parts.com is installing the barrel for me now.

Here's the link to the mold.

Non gas checked.http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=31-170B-D.png

Gas Checked.http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...31-170BG-D.png

[BulletFactory]

Since the meplat is .180, and a BB is .177, I'm going to try to make a jig to center a drill bit to the meplat. If I can drill to the edges of the meplat, I should be able to set a bb in the end with a dot of CA glue. This will protect the nose as the rounds are chambered, make the bullet more aerodynamic, and will look great.

[Digger]

Thank you Bruce ...
You will always be my reference and in my memory ...we have been taught so much .

[BulletFactory]

I couldnt get the Scout Squad to cycle with Unique, even at the maximum 14 grains according to the Lyman guide.

What would be the best powder to use for this rifle? I'm lost with it right now...

I'm running a 168grain lead cast round with a gas check. The mold is an Accurate Molds 31-170BG.

ETA, with Unique, they were hitting about 18" below the standard 168 SMK/4895 load. I get 7 clicks up to zero at 75 yards with the Match Kings.

[BulletFactory]

Anyone...?

I just need to know what powder I should try next. If my current mold design doesn't pan out, I'll try the NOE 310 165Gr. FN 2 cavity GC mold.

I've read this thread before, and I had written down a couple load recipes, one from OP, and one from Gear, but I can't find them. If I recall correctly, the OP had a best result with a mold that is no longer available. I thought geargnasher had success with the NOE, so I thought I'd try it. It's not that I didnt use the search function, I just cant seem to find the information I'm looking for.

[koehn,jim]

I would give H4895 a try. If I were using heavy boolits I would try 4831. I think you will find you are not getting enough gas volume with Unique. There is a long list of powders that Bruce had success with mentioned in the article.

[popper]

BF - I use the 31-165C, GC, PC, (GC & coated 170gr) 2400+ from an AR carbine with H4895. Shoots great but I don't have the OP rod. Ogive is slightly undersized (0.297) so no chambering problems coated.

[BulletFactory]

I would give H4895 a try. If I were using heavy boolits I would try 4831. I think you will find you are not getting enough gas volume with Unique. There is a long list of powders that Bruce had success with mentioned in the article.

I used H-4895 with the Sierra Match Kings, I didnt know you could use that powder with a cast bullet.

BF - I use the 31-165C, GC, PC, (GC & coated 170gr) 2400+ from an AR carbine with H4895. Shoots great but I don't have the OP rod. Ogive is slightly undersized (0.297) so no chambering problems coated.

The bullet you describe is a lot like what I was thinking of. Powder coated, (Im really new at this PC but I like it ...) gas checked, and pretty much the same weight.

What kind of charge are we looking at with using Hodgdon H-4895 with a gas checked cast boolit? As I said, I didnt think you could use H-4895 with lead...Thought that was for copper...????

Air cooled, or water dropped?

[BulletFactory]

Is this possible with cast bullets?
20 Rounds
75 Yards
168gr Sierra Match King, Boat Tail Hollow Point
41.5gr Hodgdon H-4895 Powder
Winchester Primers
2.00 Trim Length
2.732 OAL
Mixed Brass

[popper]

I use ~3% Sb 0.3-5% Cu, oven heat treated for an hour then dumped in cold water. I'm not a very good shot but this is today's results @100. This is an AR so no OP rod to worry about.
Attachment 140640

[BulletFactory]

What's the H-4895 Starting load weight?

[popper]

From Hodgdon site, 39gr., 2500 for jacketed, 45K psi. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

[BulletFactory]

I knew about the jacketed data, it's the cast data I'm lost on. I'm sorry.

[Wayne S]

Is this possible with cast bullets?
20 Rounds
75 Yards
168gr Sierra Match King, Boat Tail Hollow Point
41.5gr Hodgdon H-4895 Powder
Winchester Primers
2.00 Trim Length
2.732 OAL
Mixed Brass

These are at 100 yds.from a SA "Loaded" M1A w/ a 24 X scope

[popper]

I just start at low/mid jacket'd data and see how it does. If the alloy holds I can go up from there. I used to shoot the 168 Amax but changed to cast exclusively, bout the same load. I did try varget, save it for the Amax's now.