Lee PrecisionRepackboxTitan ReloadingWideners
Reloading EverythingInline FabricationMidSouth Shooters SupplyLoad Data
RotoMetals2
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: New to black powder cartridge loading

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    12

    New to black powder cartridge loading

    So, I recently purchased a Remington #1 rolling block. After figuring out what it is chambered in (45-100) and having my smith look the gun over real good. I am ready to start buying supplies and start reloading for it. I am thinking of just getting the Lee improve powder measure kit seeing I will be just doing small batches (all my other reloading is Smokeless). What is a good powder to start with? Also, what should I be using for wads between bullet and powder? I plan to load light with this gun because I am only using for punching holes in paper up to 200 yards. So, anyone have suggestions on starting loads? I have a thread that I started on the gun itself in the single shot rifles section "new to me Remington rolling block". Thank you

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Hampton Roads, Virginia
    Posts
    13,617
    Easiest is to make yourself a couple of scoops. Your goal it to fill the cartridge with BP (2FG, or 1 1/2 Swiss) and slightly (1/4" or less) compress the powder and then seat the boolit. Wad can be (most available) cut from the lids of Chinese carry out soup containers. Make a scoop that will fill the cartridge almost to the top, put in a wad, push this down until the boolit seats where you want it. Seat the boolit and, if you want, crimp. You have a loaded round. (Assuming you put a primer in before you started loading the powder!)

    Once you have this process down you can experiment with various wads, various amounts of powder/compression, verious boolits - the list is almost endless.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    14,457
    First for safety make sure the powder measure you buy is rated for Black powder. A dipper can be made to drop light and the charges trickled also. I used a Bleding and Mull measure for BP and am rebuilding a lymann 55 to BP use.

    Buy a copy of Randolph S Wrights Loading and Shooting the Paper Patched Bullet a Beginners Guide, A lot of very good well orgiized data on loading these cartridges here. Also the SPG manual is very good. these give a lot of the how what whys you need.

    As to powder in this big case I would try 1 F and 1 1/2F granulations in both olde ensford and Swiss brands powder. These big cartridges don't have 100 rds in a lb of powder so buy accordingly. Start with a charge of powder that isn't compressed but leaves no airspace between the bullet and powder. A .060 wad of a fairly heavy material (I use Napa rubber fiber gasket material a lot) and 1-2 tracing paper wads.

    Check twist rates as some of these rifles were slower twist and lighter bullets as an express cartridge and some were faster twist and heavier bullets. If the faster twists 1-18 a 500-550 grn bullet is better. The Lyman 510 govt round nose works well in a lot of rifles. As does the 535 lyman postell.

    Start with the no airspace no compression load first and work up in 2 grn increments adding just powder and compression to the mix.

    As to equipment a good die set and shell holder along with a compression die stem for it. Its better to compress separate than with the soft alloy bullets used. A good press with a larger opening is handy as these are long rounds when loaded. A wad punch for cutting wads A caliber dia rod for hand seating wads is handy, a wood dowel polished down to sliding fit in sized case works well here. a handle of some sorts make it comfortable. A golf ball file handle or wood ball all work here.

    Experiment with the rifle and let it tell you what it likes as to load

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy danomano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Oregun
    Posts
    150
    Not sure if you would try it but Trail Boss works good in the 45-120 that My Father-inlaw has. Accuracy seams great too, same or better than BP I have shot in it. You could also try 777. Just options if cleaning right away may not happen. These powders are way more forgiving.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master


    Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    N Central Florida
    Posts
    2,833
    Since trail boss was mentioned, ill say it for safety.

    Remember, trail boss is smokeless powder, not a black sub, and you never ever compress trailboss.

  6. #6
    Banned


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    NJ via TX
    Posts
    3,876
    building good bpcr cartridges is an easy process that can be difficult to convey in words. there are many different components, processes, and outcomes - all based on what is expected of the finished cartridge - hunting, target, plinking.

    the easiest way to get started in creating .45-xxx rifle cartridges is to ...

    start with brass that's either been fire formed or expanded with a straight wall expansion plug from BACO that's set into a lyman "M" die. a .460 or .461 straight expansion plug should do nicely.

    any large rifle primer will do, but at least for now stay away from pistol primers that some advocate. once the brass is fire formed, there is no need for a press.

    the question of bore and groove diameters is best handled by pounding a muzzleloader pure lead ball down the tube and measure the results. if not, prolly a .459 grease groove bullet in the 450 to 500 grain range for starters. pan or dip lubing is simplicity and works very well without the need for tooling. as to what bullet, top shelf custom moulds are THE way to go for both accuracy and depleting yer bank account post haste. a cheap lee mould (not the hollow base one) will work well, again just for starters.

    you will want to use real black powder - and if not then all bets are off, go straight to smokeless, which will require a press and loading dies and yer no longer doing a bpcr load. for the .45-100 case that'd be 1-1/2f or even 1f. imho, the best is still swiss, followed by oe and then goex. nothing available locally? do what most of us do, mail order. quantity is always lots cheaper. do a group buy if need be.

    bp loads require a full case of powder and no air space as with smokeless loads. that .45-100 is gonna pack a wallop with a "normal" load of 90+ grains, and to get the charge down to more comfortable levels requires wads, and lots of 'em. for my .45-70 i build wadded light loads for competing at 200 yard matches, with 60 grains of swiss 1-1/2f, 6 wads (2 .025 card, 2 .125 hard felt, 2 .025 card), light compression and a 410 grain ppb. this load won last years club fall 200 yard match. you need to build the same way, but with lots more wads. what the final accuracy will be with such a load is pure conjecture and fiddling with it will be most likely expected. it's very handy to punch out yer own wads, either with a hammer punch or a cornell press punch.

    the powder needs to be drop filled into the case. build a simple drop tube with a 24" - 30" length of brass or aluminum tubing, or an alum arrow shaft, with an alum funnel taped on at one end and the tube taped on, or fitted with screw eyes to a piece of wood. making this is easy and cheaper than buying. they all do the same job regardless of cost. this process compacts the powder (not compression).

    with that primed brass, now drop filled with powder, push the wads in one at a time with a 3/8 or 7/16 dowel til you feel them home on either the powder or last wad. that's it for compression, no die needed (for starters). push in the bullet, check the OAL, go shoot.

    before building any live rounds, you WILL need to create a dummy cartridge (press in a spent primer) loaded as above. grease groove cartridges can be very OAL sensitive.

    above all, have phun.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,941
    The .45-100 can be loaded pretty lightly with Fg. I've shot mine with 80gr of Swiss Fg and a bullet just under 500gr.

    If you want to just make small batches you'll be fine with a set of Lee Powder scoops and a trickler to bring the charges up to their final weight.

    Chris.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Boulder CO
    Posts
    783
    Congratulations on a great rifle and welcome to the wonderful whacky world of BPCR!

    Opinions abound and individual procedures are as bizarre, substantial, and serious as Voodoo. You will have to work out your own little ritual, develop vociferous opinions on primer type, decide on exactly the type of powder that can only be used, all others being completely hopeless, and work out how you want to denigrate those whose views even slightly differ from your own. You will need to purchase all sorts of arcane equipment without which there is no possible way to make a bullet strike a bran at 50 feet. All that to come.

    In the mean time:

    • Avoiding any space in a cartridge is important for safety. Slight compression 1/10" - 1/8" gives you certainty on avoiding space. Later you will decide how much compression you want/need for accuracy and, having so decided, you must then tell anyone who has a different approach that they are ignorant beasts.

    • You will eventually have the joy of entering the fray on Paper Patched vs Grease Grooved bullets. This debate makes Sunni vs. Shi'a look like a mere piffle. Until you get there, remember that black powder leaves substantial fouling and that without means for softening and removing that fouling, it will harden fairly rapidly and negatively impact accuracy. I would suggest that GGs would be a good place to start.

    • Slug your barrel to determine groove depth

    • A chamber cast would be a very good idea as it will tell you about throat diameter and length, and show you leade. A short sharp leade is generally considered much less conducive to PPs, for example, and sizing to throat diameter is often considered a key element to improved accuracy, though there are different opinions.

    • In terms of load construction, primer is a matter of deep religious conviction, ranging from buffered pistol primers absolutely critical to gently ignite the powder column to must use Magnum primers or you will never get combustion. All I can tell you is that black powder is extremely easy to ignite. You want some compression in the powder column and no space. So, if you want to load lighter, you need filler. Another question of doctrine. You can use fibre wads, or some form of natural filler like corn meal, as long as you don't have an independent opinion that differs from that of others. Ballistic Products, Circle Fly, and Track of the Wolf are all online retailers that offer various size and type wads. It is generally accepted that a lube cookie of some kind to augment the lube in your GG helps manage fouling. An over powder card slightly larger than the inner diameter of the case may help keep said lube from running into powder.

    • There are lots of excellent boolits available. It is generally acknowledged that pure lead to 1:20 works best with black powder. Many would suggest that the Postell boolit might be a good place to start.

    • 1.5 Fg or 1Fg granularity powder is likely best with the 45-100.

    • Remember that non-petroleum based products work best with BP, so cleaning with hot soapy water, maybe Ballistol, and softer lube of a beeswax, vegetable oil, Crisco sort will suit best.

    I suggest getting onto the Books section at Buffalo Arms and buying a few books on BPCR would be helpful in forming your own views. Matthews and Venturino come to mind as authoritative authors on the subject. There are others.

    But, no space between powder and boolit and soft lube are all you really need to get started. Enjoy.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    3,577
    The .44-100 Remington straight is a great cartridge. I have a couple rifles with that chamber and both shoot really well. I would not load this cartridge with smokeless to down load it. This is a large volume case and this has the potential for flash over and the results is a detonation. Not only that a lot of the old rollers had the springs soften to reduce the trigger pull and had the firing pin blow the hammer back that unlocks the breach and the case gets blown back at you.
    Load that shell with a full load of black and it will do you a fine job.
    Attachment 214929Here are some loads I use in my .44-100 Rem. They were shot at close range but still they are not bad and they hold good to the 1K. The KIK is gone but there is still the OE, Swiss and Goex. all three of those powders are very easy to get........Kurt

  10. #10
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    12
    Thank you everyone for the great advice, I sure do appreciate it. This gives me just what I was looking to start this new learning process. Very excited to learn whatever I can.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check