Ruger Super Blackhawk(Bisley) DIY Trigger Job

[newton]

I thought I would share my experience over the weekend. I bought a new Bisley Blackhawk Hunter and I was noticing a LOT of gritty creep when I was trying to squeeze off rounds at a target. It would have been one thing if it was predictable, but it really was causing me some headache when trying to be precise. I honestly thought that I would just have to clean things up a little bit, maybe there were just some tiny burrs that needed to be dressed, but when I got it apart I realized it was going to turn into a full on trigger job. I am not sure if a thread like this is floating around on here or not, but I know there are some like it on other forums. All the information contained in here is what I learned from hours upon hours of web searching.

Here is the disclaimer - I am not a gunsmith, nor do I have all the traditional gunsmithing tools. I do have a good understanding of how the hammer and sear interface and what just a little bit of things being off could cause. 1) I could totally aggravate the problem and make the trigger pull worse. 2) I could totally ruin the trigger, making it completely unsafe, and cause myself some money having to purchase new parts. So what I am saying is, I am sharing what I did, but my personal opinion is that you should feel confident when doing this yourself, understand the risks, but most importantly understand how the action works. Without understanding how the action works, you cannot understand what is safe and what is not. That's my thoughts at least. I just do not want to make anyone think its impossible to do trigger work, but at the same time, I want to share how it can be done by a nonprofessional. Trust me, if I was a rich man, or had friends who were gunsmiths, I would gladly have let someone else work on the gun.

I started on it Sunday morning, got it apart in an hour, taking my time to make sure I did not lose anything and I also took a LOT of pictures of the disassembly. After that, Sunday evening, I spent 2 1/2 hours working on the hammer and sear. It actually took me longer to put the gun back together due to the fact I also messed with the trigger spring, and I tried to oil everything real good - which made for real slippery hands - and then add in the fact that some metal burrs came loose from the frame causing the upper frame screws(which are hard enough to deal with on a Bisley model) to bind. All in all, I would say it was a 5-6 hour job, but that is with me having NEVER taken a Blackhawk fully apart, or ever working on a hammer and sear.

The tools I used were; a screwdriver that fit the frame screws tightly so they would not mar, a 7/64 allen wrench(which having one with a ball head would have made things easier), a small flat blade screwdriver(used for the gate detent spring), a kitchen match to push out the hammer and trigger pins(the ruger videos show a punch being used, but my pins just pressed out once they were not being held captive), 1000 & 3000 grit stone(I used a large, two sided, sharpening stone as it is super flat and easy to hold onto), a buffing pad with jewlers rouge(I had a stick of white compound that I use to buff knives with to a mirror shine), and a small jewlers flat file.

A note on the flat file and rouge. The flat file was only used because, as you will see, I had some pretty major(relatively) work to do and it was quicker to use the file. The rouge will flat out make a piece of metal shinny - but don't think that it does not take metal off - it will. You could easily ruin a hammer/sear by overdoing it with rouge.

So, the number one thing that gave me the last bit of confidence to do this was a neat little trick for setting up a 'jig' to test and see how the hammer and sear interface. Without a jig, you are only guessing at what angles they meet each other. Guessing is probably not the best thing when doing trigger work. It's not my idea, I found pictures of it online along with pretty good instructions on how to perform the trigger job.



All you do is take the hammer pivot pin and trigger pivot pin, put them into their holes part ways, then secure them with the parts they are normally secured with - the long frame screw for the hammer pin, and the gate detent spring for the trigger pin. I put some blue tape on the recoil shield just to keep the hammer from scratching it so much. I used a very light rubber band just to make some pressure. I tried not to let the hammer just free fall when doing the testing. One thing about this is, each time you move the parts you should push them down flat because they will ride up the pins.

Here is what I found with regards to the sear.



Doesn't look too horrible, but after putting some marker on it and running it in the jig, things began to make sense.





Looking at it against a flat surface.




Obviously, it was not making full contact with the hammer notch. Which, a person might think would be helpful in regards to trigger pull, but it is not and was causing another issue as seen below.



It is my opinion that this burr is what was causing most of my gritty feeling. Not only that but because there is some side to side play between the hammer and sear, the burr and the raised portion of the sear would meet in different areas from time to time, which was causing the unpredictable trigger break when squeezing one off.

So what started with me thinking I would just touch up the hammer notch, turned into having to address the sear issue and dealing with the hammer notch. I'll continue that on in the next post, I am sure I am running out of room with this first post.

[newton]

I started with the hammer first. There are a lot of differing opinions on what the best depth should be, that is, the portion that makes contact with the sear(not the depth to the rounded part). I opted to leave it as long as possible, due to the fact it is primarily a hunting handgun. I am sure that reducing the depth would reduce the total creep(obviously, because there is less distance for the sear to travel.....), but I also figured with a smooth interface between the sear and hammer the creep would mainly unfelt. Again, my personal opinion. This was after all a nonprofessional job. I was playing things safe.

I did measure the depth and it was right around .027". I think the smallest depth I saw recommended was .012", so I figured I had some room to work with. This is where I used the small flat jewelers file. I am sure I could have just used a stone to take down that burr, but it was large enough I could take the burr off, then touch it up with a stone. I ended up taking around .004" off.

I used magic marker to gauge my removal. I reapplied it as I worked down the surface, using it to see if I was getting off kilter with the file and stone.




Here is what I ended up with. I did not bother with polishing that flat surface because it does not contact anything. I just needed to remove the burr and provided a flat even surface for the sear to engage.




I forgot to add the small vise and piece of leather to the "tools I used" part. One thing of importance is this, I worked in a parallel direction with the contact edges of the hammer and sear. I think this is important to do because the number one thing you do not want to do is change the angles that the sear and hammer meet at. Working parallel to the edges you can 'creep up' on the edge making sure you are flat. Also, in regards to the sear, it is better if you were to accidentally change the angle, to have it lower in the front than the rear(front being the end outside the notch, the rear being the end most inside the notch), because that way the hammer would not just slip off. All of this is hard to put into words per say, it would be so much easier if I could draw a picture for every sentence - but that would take forever to post. lol Also, there is a significant portion of the front part of the sear that does not make contact at all, so if you're gonna mess up, this is a good place to do it on. The following picture shows that Ruger doesn't put too much importance on the front area either....

Here it is after a little bit of some stone work. You can really see the raised portion of the sear here. I would often stop and put the parts on the jig to test progress.




Here it is almost getting there.




This is where I finally got that raised portion off, and also where I had to be careful not to rock my stone because I was somewhat taking more material off the two sides than the middle. Some of what looks like surface irregularities is just the magic marker being applied heavier in some spots. Close up pictures show a lot of stuff.




This is why it's important, in my opinion, to work parallel to the edge - very easy to not stay parallel. Using the frame as a jig made all of this doable. I would NOT even think of attempting it without being able to check progress, and without a jig the only way would be to put all the parts back into the gun.


Here is the finished product. I hate to say that I did not get a picture of the magic marker being worn off like in the last picture. It was late, I was tired(mentally) and just ready to put the gun back together. It takes a lot of patience and attention to not mess things up - for me at least. You can kind of see where the hammer was contacting the sear, there is a faint line running across the face.




I did polish it up a little more with the jewelers rouge. I also polished the areas where the hammer and trigger drag when cocking the gun, just to maybe help make that smoother feeling - I couldn't really tell you if I notice a difference in the end though.

When I was done, I tested it in the jig best I could. One thing I learned from research is you can easily spot an angle error by watching the hammer as you pull the trigger. If the hammer moves either forward or backward slightly, you have a problem. Backward is not as bad as it moving forward, but it still means you changed the angles. I cant tell you how much time I sat there testing it, over and over, watching close as I could to see if the hammer moved when I slightly pulled the trigger. I was relieved to find that the hammer never moved until the sear finally broke from the notch.

However, one thing that people talk about is if there is something wrong it might manifest itself when the hammer is cocked back hard. This can only be tested with the gun put back together. So I put everything back together and ran it through its paces. Hammer and sear lockup tight as a drum. No slippage. After a lot of dryfiring, I was very pleased with how crisp the trigger felt compared to how it did feel. With the surfaces even now, I bet it will just get better with time.

Like I said, I did not remove ALL the creep there was, but the difference is incredible and I cannot wait till I get to see how it shoots on the range(hopefully tomorrow).

I will say, that I could totally see myself buying a stoning fixture and stones if I had a lot of revolvers to do. It would make the job so much easier I think. But, this was not too bad, and as long as you got the time and inclination to do it right, it can be done .

[Oklahoma Rebel]

good post! sounds like a nightmare with my ADD being as bad as it is though..lol. good camera work too! gald it worked out well, now lets see how that translates into accuracy!

[newton]

You all that have done this before, and those who are professionals, jump on in with any constructive criticism or anything else that might be helpful. I hope I got the point across that I do not take this kind of stuff as casual type metal working, but at the same time a person also has to remmber that loading ammunition should not be taken lightly either. So trigger work is not rocket science, but rather a matter of knowing what your trying to do and how to get there - with a LOT of patience and attention to detail in the middle.

[newton]

good post! sounds like a nightmare with my ADD being as bad as it is though..lol. good camera work too! gald it worked out well, now lets see how that translates into accuracy!

Thanks. I honestly did not want to mess with the sear at all. Maybe rub a little polishing compound on it or something, but not to the extream that I had to. After looking at it I just could not see any other option.

I think it's going to translate enough to make me do a happy dance. After the last cylinder full I shot the other day I knew that I had no other option than to work on the trigger. It really was that bad. Its hard to describe a feeling, but after I saw what the hammer/sear looked like it all made perfect sense what I was feeling.

[curioushooter]

This is a great post. A bit part of the aggravation for me is how difficult it is to re-assemble Blackhawks. The hammer pin, the bolt plunger, the trigger spring. Something always wants to not cooperate. If you are cautious and only take a little material off the hammer at a time the achieving a good trigger is a long and tiresome process.

It seems that there is about 2x as much material as there should be on the hammer.

It is basically impossible to get fine accuracy with such a long-creepy trigger and hobbles with is otherwise such an excellent revolver.

[contender1]

Very good posting.

You already mentioned it,, but it bears repeating. Never attempt to change the ANGLE of the hammer/sear engagement. But smooth movement of parts working with each other is the desired effect. Positive contact,, w/o burrs or rough areas that can cause "drag" in movement,, is desired.

One thing,, ALWAYS go slow,, & check the work often. Once metal is removed,, you can't put it back,, (well not easily & w/o expense.) And lastly,, if you find yourself getting tired,, or frustrated,, STOP working on it & set it aside for later work. Pushing yourself to finish can often lead to mistakes.

[DougGuy]

It takes me about 15mins to dress down the height of the hammer pad. I *NEVER* touch the sear or it's engagement. I get rid of pretty much all of the creep, you cock the hammer, push forward on the spur to load up the sear, and dry fire it 50 or 100 times with some oil on the hammer. This "cams" the sear and hammer together and will smooth out the engagement better than any store bought jig can compete with. It uses the pistol's own internals as a jig. I finish by suggesting the installation of a Wolff 30oz. trigger return spring.

[45 Dragoon]

I would just add that your (op) mention of positive, neutral, and negative engagement is important. A positive engagement is the safest engagement since the trigger has to overcome the mechanical advantage as well as mainspring and return spring pressure - (you don't want to send an "accident waiting to happen " back to a customer . . . even if it came to you with a negative engagement).
A neutral engagement is said to be OK and is best suited for a "trained" finger.

And of course a negative engagement (hammer moving forward as the trigger is pulled) is never safe, IS the accident LOOKING for a place to happen, is dangerous to the user AND bystanders and won't get better by itself!!

All engagements leave my shop with a positive condition.

Mike

[tarbe]

Great thread!

[Dorf]

+1 to what Doug Guy sez! I have several Rugers that he has "massaged" and can attest to the fact that I shoot much better as a result of his work. Hope this helps '
Stan

[AndyC]

Wonderful, logical progression here - love it!

[curioushooter]

In your experience, particularly Doug if you see this, how much needs to come off the hammer's "pad." I have been taking thousandths off at a time and re-assembling and it seems it is pretty incredible how much excess material there is.

[DougGuy]

In your experience, particularly Doug if you see this, how much needs to come off the hammer's "pad." I have been taking thousandths off at a time and re-assembling and it seems it is pretty incredible how much excess material there is.

Actually I couldn't answer that question because I never measure or worry about how much I need to take off, I only measure what's left and I use a feeler gauge to know when I am close but I won't give the specific thickness because I don't use it in the traditional manner, I have a way of tilting it and running my finger over it to get it precisely where I want it. If I said the thickness, someone could possibly use the same thickness in the traditional manner which may or may not present them with an unsafe trigger because they don't read it the same as how I read it.

[LOBO]

Old thread but a great one!! Want a trigger job on my NM Blackhawk, but this looks a little above my pay grade!!!!

[contender1]

Well LOBO,, contact DougGuy & see if he can do your gun!

[Chena]

Lobo, before investing in the trigger job, you might try simply dry firing about 200 times, followed by blowing out the action with carb cleaner. I have had three Super Blackhawks respond pretty well to this treatment.