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Thread: Action Doesn't Cycle, Barrel Leading, and Poor Accuracy. Please help!

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Action Doesn't Cycle, Barrel Leading, and Poor Accuracy. Please help!

    I need help with how to shoot lead cast powder coated bullets in my Tavor X95 so that my barrel and flash suppressor do not get coated in lead, the action cycles, and the accuracy is decent (rather than looking like a shotgun spread at 25 yards). I bought the Lyman casting handbook and for a 55gr lead cast bullet all the loads result in velocities of about 1700 to 1800 ftps. I started off at the minimum load with Red Dot and the accuracy was good at 50 yards and there was no visible leading in the barrel or flash suppressor. The problem was there was not enough force to eject the spent case. Next I used the near maximum load for Red Dot and the accuracy was terrible, there was leading in my barrel and flash suppressor, and the spent cases were still not even close to being ejected. I have not tried gas checks but if it will prevent leading and improve accuracy I will use them. However, if the velocities of all the recommended powders and loads are within a few hundred ftps and I have already tried a load of Red Dot that is near the maximum velocity of the other powders, then how is it possible to use one of the other powders and charges and get decent accuracy, no leading, and enough force to cycle the action? I am using lead from wheel weights. I have not been able to find linotype but heard it is possible to add copper to the lead alloy to increase the hardness. There are so many variables I am struggling with what to do next. What I do know is the Red Dot powder is not going to work. If I use a slower burning powder that results in a similar velocity as the maximum Red Dot load then how could it cycle the action? Wouldn’t the resultant force on the bolt be the same for a given velocity no matter what speed the powder burns? I am asking a lot of questions but I would appreciate any advice on what to do next. I just want to go to the range with my Tavor and shoot inexpensively at targets at around 50 yards and have the action cycle without leading my barrel. Thank you in advance!

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Gas checks will help, does the mold you are using cut for gas check,
    what are you sizing to.
    Does power coat hold up when you smash test them.

    Bulk FMJ plinkers are cheap 7-8 cents.
    Last edited by Adam20; 02-19-2018 at 06:28 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    Not familiar with that weapon, but if it is gas operated, red dot is not going to work. Much too quick burning and pressures are starting to drop be for the bullet passes the port. Do a Google search for a current thread here about finding the perfect ar15 load for a good starting point.

    Found it:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...d-for-my-AR-15
    "In God we trust, in all others, check the manual!"

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    Fast burning pistol and shotgun powders will NOT cycle your action. Find some loads that use rifle powders and gas check your bullets. You are getting leading due to blow-by. Checks should resolve that issue.

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold
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    Thanks for the information. Does the velocity need to go up in order to cycle the action? Should I look for a rifle powder and load that gives a certain bullet velocity?

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    No, velocity and gas volume at the port are not necessarily related. Red dot is very fast, spiking pressure and accelerating the bullet in the first few inches of barrel, then pressure starts to drop. 4895 on the other extreme end, starts the bullet slowly and continues to burn and build pressure as the bullet is accelerated gradually, meaning pressure is still high or building when the bullet passes the gas port. Remember loading manuals are only interested in safe pressures, not the actual pressure curve.
    "In God we trust, in all others, check the manual!"

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Red Dot is often not an ideal powder for semi auto rifles. Just does not produce enough gas for long enough. Tends to be a quick hard pulse then is diminishing rapidly by the time the bullet reaches the gas port.

    In my Yugo SKS 7.62x39 I do shoot it some, mostly under 90 grain truncated cone cast at .314.
    But as I have a Yugo SKS, with the grendade launcher, ladder sights and gas shut off I just shut the gas off. Shoot it like a russian K-31 straight pull bolt. Much easier to find the brass.

    To cycle the SKS I use 20 grains of IMR 4895. Slower burning powder, much more gas over a much longer duration. Nice long slow push.

    I also like both 20 and 28 grains of 4895 in the Mosin pushing the big Lee .312 185 gr gas checked.

    Red Dot is good stuff, and it has its place. But running semi-auto's is not one of those. Attaining top speeds is another. Low end loads can be amazingly accurate, and thrifty as heck.

    But there is no one size fits all powder. Although Red Dot can come close once you understand its limitations.

  8. #8
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    Look at win 748 powder and similar burn rates
    [SIZE=4][B]Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder

    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

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  9. #9
    Boolit Mold
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    Do you use gas checks on cast bullets you use in your SKS rifles?

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    About half and half.

    I shoot some .314 90 gr TC TL those are plain base. Mostly these are over light loads of Red Dot.

    I also shoot the Lee .312 185 gr those are checked. These I use the 4895 and they are probably fast enough that the gas check is needed.

  11. #11
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavor2017 View Post
    I need help with how to shoot lead cast powder coated bullets

    ...SNIP
    while the Tavor isn't an AR, I suspect getting it to cycle and shoot accurately, will require similar techniques.
    There has been LOTS posted here about the AR-15 and cast boolits.
    Type "CAST AR" into the google custom search and you will find hours of reading.

    This one is pretty good, I posted in this one with my first attempts at it (see post #44)
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...elp&highlight=

    I strongly suggest using a Gas Check. Once you have some success, you could try some without a GC and see how that goes in the Tavor.
    Good Luck.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  12. #12
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    Hi Tavor2017,

    No leading and accuracy is doable for sure.

    Start with the basics by slugging your bore so you know your groove diameter. So important is boolit fit to even get to first base in cast shooting, along with all the other suggestions above. Basics like cast at least .001" over your (groove) diameter, not "bore" diameter.

    Bullet fit. Alloy used for casting (water drop etc.) and appropriate pressure loads and powder choices. All this info is here at CB from the masters of this sport.

    You can find a wealth of information on slugging your bore, test results, gas checks, Auto loader with PB gas checks, and more on my website on "The Learning Pages"

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-slug-a-barrel

    http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm
    Last edited by PatMarlin; 03-21-2018 at 07:46 PM.

  13. #13
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    I agree with Pat, the 3 rules of cast boolits is;
    1) fit, boolit to groove diameter the boolit needs to be .5 to 3 thousandths bigger than groove diameter depending on your gun, alloy, and velocity. you can either slug your barrel and go from there (most comon) or do a poundcast of your chamber (more accurate but more difficult)

    2) alloy, you alloy needs to be hard enough not to strip off in the rifling and soft enough to obturate to fill the bore and prevent leading

    3) velocity the boolit needs to be pushed hard enough to obturate properly, get the proper spin but not strip leadoff in the rifling. as mentioned about you need to choose the right powder (burn rate) for your application.

    I'd forget about copper for now, and stick to more common alloys

    http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris...%20an%20AR.htm

    this will help you with alloying
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=105952
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Various-Alloys

    Monotype is good for alloying and occasionally you see members selling it.

    if you have access to pure lead, range scrap or wheel weights, rotometals has alloys for hardening you lead.
    If you don't have access to lead there are some vendors (and members) on this site that sell lead. ("TheCaptain" a VS has quality lead at a good price)

    DON'T USE WOOD to slug your barrel. if the grain of the wood isn't perfectly straight the piece of wood could sheer and get stuck in your barrel (if this happens it can be safely removed hydraulically by a gunsmith. ues either a brass or steel rod, wrap the rod with at least 2 layers of tape to protect your rifling

  14. #14
    Boolit Master


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    what bhn lead are you using?

    are you using a boolit that needs a gas check but has none?

    I agree with the notion to switch to a rifle powder.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Check out the Lyman ar reloading Manuel. So far any load I have tried from it cycles the action and locks back on last shot. It is not only pressure but also duration. Red dot is very fast for ar action. Works well if careful in bolt bot pressure can reach max very fast.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check