30-30 Reloading Help

[EMR]

Mods please move this if this is in the wrong section.

This is my first rifle I’ve ever reloaded for which is why I’m seeking advice from the collective.

Using a NOE 311-180 (311041) I cast, PCd and made some dummy rounds for my Win 1894 AE in 30-30. Per my Lyman manual, I seated them to OAL of 2.510.

After cycling them though the gun, I noticed all of them had multiple flat spots around the circumference of the bullets. Since this is my first time reloading for rifle (and a lever gun at that), I don’t know if I’m hitting rifle lands or if I’m good to go?

There’s is a tiny bit of resistance felt as the receiver starts to close.

Any advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[TNsailorman]

Did you resize those bullets after PC'ing them? If not they are going to be larger in diameter than .308 or .309. They might be large enough to be hitting the step at the throat of the cartridge case. That is what it looks like to me. james

[Larry Gibson]

The PC increases the diameter including that of the nose. The lands are scraping the PC off the nose.

[Motor]

The PC increases the diameter including that of the nose. The lands are scraping the PC off the nose.

Yep. This is another reason why I like the Lee 160gr 2R TL. Even when powder coated it's profile does not interfere with the lead. (The part of the chamber where the rifling starts)

I do flat point them for use in tubular magazines.

I really don't know what your easiest fix is. I'm personally in the bigger is better club when it comes to cast boolits but since I switched to powder coating I'm actually finding there is really no need.

If you are not doing so already I suggest you size the boolits .309" and see if that helps. You can also seat them deeper too. At typical cast load pressures a difference in seating depth should not be an issue in the 30-30.

Motor

[Rcmaveric]

Nice looking cartridge.

What is your chamber dimensions? Also get a dowel rod and close the action. Insert the dowel rod and mark it at the muzzle. Insert your bullet into the chamber then hold it gently in the throat with a pencil. Now while holding the bullet in place, reinsert your dowel and mark it. Now measure that distance and write it down. I will normaly subtract .002 of that measurement and use that as my starting seating depth. Then you can load up dummy rounds and slowly seat deeper till the rounds cycle reliably.

I didn't see mention sizing the bullets. A chamber cast will tell you if the bullet needs sizing. If you powder coat it does change the dimensions of the bullet and requires measuring seating depth again. I use the Lee C309-150-RF for my 30-30 and it has different seating depths for greased or PC'ed.

[EMR]

Did you resize those bullets after PC'ing them? If not they are going to be larger in diameter than .308 or .309. They might be large enough to be hitting the step at the throat of the cartridge case. That is what it looks like to me. james

I resized them to .311. I choose that because they mic’d out of the mold at .312. After PCing .315. I didn’t want to resize too much for fear of shaving off PC.

The PC increases the diameter including that of the nose. The lands are scraping the PC off the nose.

It’s actually not scraping off, but simply creating flat spots. That white spot in the picture is just an overexposed spot in the photo.

With that said, are these safe to shoot as-is? Or am I going to have pressure or accuracy issues?

Yep. This is another reason why I like the Lee 160gr 2R TL. Even when powder coated it's profile does not interfere with the lead. (The part of the chamber where the rifling starts)

I do flat point them for use in tubular magazines.

I really don't know what your easiest fix is. I'm personally in the bigger is better club when it comes to cast boolits but since I switched to powder coating I'm actually finding there is really no need.

If you are not doing so already I suggest you size the boolits .309" and see if that helps. You can also seat them deeper too. At typical cast load pressures a difference in seating depth should not be an issue in the 30-30.

Motor

As noted in my reply above, they’re sized to .311. Which brings up a new question: the nose of the bullet which is flattened wasn’t affected by the resizing. So would further resizing make any difference?

[EMR]

So I did another test and made a dummy round without any PC. I'm still getting the flat spots, albeit slightly smaller appearing.

Is this mold just a bad fit for my rifle?

I ended up getting the 311041 based on all the recommendations here but I see that I may just be unlucky.

Anyone have any other recommendations for flat nosed molds or should I look into having a smith throat the chamber?

[popper]

Seat a tad deeper/shorter. OAL is a recommendation. Use what fits your rifle. No, pressure is OK if you use mid jacketed load data. What powder?

[EMR]

Seat a tad deeper/shorter. OAL is a recommendation. Use what fits your rifle. No, pressure is OK if you use mid jacketed load data. What powder?

I was going for plinker loads and found on here several who recommended ~16gn of 2400. So with this I should be fine for pressure but if I ever wanted to make full power for hunting I’d like to make sure I’m good for later.

[Rcmaveric]

Bullet may be to big for the throat and its scraping. Slowly work the action to see when its getting the spots. If it gets the spots when close the action and you feel some resistance on the lever, then try you bullet .001 smaller. If you see it gets the flat spots during feeding, seat the bullet deeper.

[WALLNUTT]

Are the flat spots just the lands marking the nose of the bullet?

[EMR]

Bullet may be to big for the throat and its scraping. Slowly work the action to see when its getting the spots. If it gets the spots when close the action and you feel some resistance on the lever, then try you bullet .001 smaller. If you see it gets the flat spots during feeding, seat the bullet deeper.

The flat spots happen when the action closes. So the consensus is to seat it deeper. I’ll have to try this route when I get the chance.

Are the flat spots just the lands marking the nose of the bullet?

No idea. That’s what I’m assuming but came here hoping to get answers.

[EMR]

Nice looking cartridge.

What is your chamber dimensions? Also get a dowel rod and close the action. Insert the dowel rod and mark it at the muzzle. Insert your bullet into the chamber then hold it gently in the throat with a pencil. Now while holding the bullet in place, reinsert your dowel and mark it. Now measure that distance and write it down. I will normaly subtract .002 of that measurement and use that as my starting seating depth. Then you can load up dummy rounds and slowly seat deeper till the rounds cycle reliably.

I didn't see mention sizing the bullets. A chamber cast will tell you if the bullet needs sizing. If you powder coat it does change the dimensions of the bullet and requires measuring seating depth again. I use the Lee C309-150-RF for my 30-30 and it has different seating depths for greased or PC'ed.

Sorry I didn’t see your reply earlier. I haven’t casted the chamber yet but if you guys say i should then it’s a route I’ll be happy to take. I’ll definitely have to try your dowel method as well.

I use a lee push through sizer at .311. The bore slugs to 0.3082.

[EDG]

Just shoot 20 or so. I have shot bullets as much as .004 larger than groove diameter.

[GARD72977]

I would shoot them like they are. I like my cast loads to touch the lands.

[Motor]

Looking more closely at your photo it looks like you have plenty of room to seat deeper without the ogive being below the case mouth.

.311" should be good. I size all my boolits for .308" groove diameter .311

Seat your boolits so the point at which the diameter falls below .311 is just outside the case mouth and your problem will be corrected.

Motor

ETA: Come to think of it for as long as the neck is, the 30-30 typically doesn't have much bullet beyond the case mouth when loaded with your standard tube magazine friendy projectile. It kind of looks like mostly casing but that's because most of the bullet is typically inside of the neck.

[gwpercle]

That little bit of powder coating scraped off should cause no problem , shoot a few and check for any leading/fouling, if none you are good. Set up in that manner it may be an accurate load.
If you have a round that chambers hard...be careful the case isn't extracted with the boolit still stuck in the throat...powder spills out and you have to get a rod to knock the boolit out. Don't make that boolit any larger...
For my 1970's model 94 30-30 I size the boolits .309 and lubricate with Lithi-Bee ...no powder coating. And get no leading and good accuracy
Gary

[Motor]

Just a another response to one of your earlier statements about worry over sizing and scraping PC.

Are you aware of the "hammer test" ? This is where you take one of your powder coated boolits and hammer it into a cube. When you are done your cube will still be powder coated.

So I doubt you have to worry about sizing scraping PC.

Motor

[mdi]

Maybe I see things different, but that scrape looks pretty far back to be the lands. Perhaps the bullet is just scraping the chamber mouth on feeding. I see a continuation of the scrape on the case neck...

Of course my tri focals don't focus jes right all the time...

[Motor]

Maybe I see things different, but that scrape looks pretty far back to be the lands. Perhaps the bullet is just scraping the chamber mouth on feeding. I see a continuation of the scrape on the case neck...

Of course my tri focals don't focus jes right all the time...

If you read the OP's post above what you see in the photo is NOT a scrape. It's a flat spot that is reflecting the camera flash. I think he also said there are more of them around the boolit.

The "continuation" is more or the same flash.

Motor