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Thread: specific alloy for 223/556 use

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy autopilotmp's Avatar
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    specific alloy for 223/556 use

    I have been sifting through tons of threads about different alloys and their uses, as well as the threads specific for the caliber that I am interested in. So much information spread over several years all with mixed results and most with incomplete information. There are quite a few of you out there that have had success with shooting cast 223 boolits in your AR platform rifles, some at high velocity. The latter is what I'm looking for information on. I have tinkered with the lee C225-55 boolits and have shot acceptable for me groups @3" at 100 yds on the low velocity spectrum (2100 fps). I would like to push the velocity up to bring the trajectory closer to jacketed loads. I currently use straight COWW with a touch of tin, nothing scientific no weighing involved. More than willing to start approaching the alloy from a more precise direction. Have been contemplating what alloy would work best to put me on the right track for success.

    I have been using copper gas checks, conventional lube (currently carnuba blue), water dropped COWW, and weight sorting to tenth of a grain. All this with the Lee C225-55rf mold. I have recently purchased the NOE 225-70 mold with the hopes the heavier boolit will work in my 1:8 twist carbine barrel a little more efficiently than the lighter 55 gn boolit. I want to push these a little faster, not talking 3000fps just more like 2700fps. Thinking that at this point the actual alloy is probably what will hold me back.

    Really is no question in this post, just wanting to start a discussion about what alloy would be best suited for this specific caliber/rifle combination.

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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    I would suggest using COWW without any tin added and then Heat treat instead of water dropping. Heat treating is more consistent than water dropping and you can achieve a higher BHN.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...eat&highlight=
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master




    bruce drake's Avatar
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    I don't water-drop or heat treat my alloy for my high velocity cast bullets (223 Rem) but I switched to a hard-alloy (BHN 21) mix (10lbs of Antomonial Lead and 5lbs of Roto Metals Super Hard Alloy (87% lead, 13% Antimony) with my original BAC lubed and checked MiHec 68gr bullet mold. I kept the velocity at 2300fps then, but I'm hoping that I can get 25-2700fps with a PC coating in the future.
    I Cast my Boolits, Therefore I am Happy.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy autopilotmp's Avatar
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    Anyone tried using the copper alloy from the stickies above? Was thinking of trying the coww with nickel grade 2 Babbitt base then mix with soww. To create a tougher alloy, trying both air cooled and water dropped.

    Are there any other mixtures that would give an advantage here?

  5. #5
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    I have had decent results with Lyman #2 alloy, copper gas check and powder coating (shake-n-bake) 70 grain NOE .225 cast with 24.5 grains of Varget, CCI small rifle primer. Fired from a Ruger Mini-14 with 1:7 twist.

    No idea of the velocity but at out to 100 yards seems comparable to the jacketed rounds. Could go .5 grain higher on powder load but didn't notice any improvement and brass was flung further away. Figured no point to the extra powder.

    There is something to be said for using an alloy that is hard, given same mix one can expect a known hardness, probably the most consistent approach to hardness. Heat treating offers similar ability to repeat the same process to yield consistent results but with a touch more variability than same alloy approach to consistent hardness. Water dropping I think would be the hardest to be consistent with. But I don't do it so... it's only an opinion.

    The copper in Babbitt might allow going harder with alloy without becoming brittle.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

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  6. #6
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    I have used a little copper mixed in my bolt rifle rounds. I had some contaminated with copper foundry type that added about .25% copper. Those rounds seemed to be more accurate at 100 yards... No chrony so not sure how fast I was pushing them.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I use only linotype for the 22 caliber bullets with Hornady copper gas checks. If you want to shoot at 3,000 fps or faster heat treating the lino is the way to go. I have obtained 3,619 fps average by doing this. The 3,619 fps loads were for experimental purposes only and beyond any listed load data.
    I also use Hi-Tek coating but Carnuba Red may work. LBT Blue Soft will definitely work.
    In my guns the Gator copper gas checks were not as accurate as the Hornady. Might be the slightly rounded bases of the Gator? Velocity over 3,000 fps starts to open groups and at 3,600 fps there is "debris" left in the barrel that cleans out with one pass of the brush. Loads around 2,700 fps were the most accurate with the H4895 powder I was using. Tac also works well.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    I would suggest using COWW without any tin added and then Heat treat instead of water dropping. Heat treating is more consistent than water dropping and you can achieve a higher BHN.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...eat&highlight=
    And size the boolit before heat treating...much easier. After sizing and heat treating run them through and lubricate and crimp on the gas check.

    Another way to skin that monkey is to use a hard alloy , like linotype , then you don't have to heat treat them, just size, lube and gheck...the boolits already hard.

    Gary
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  9. #9
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    Another vote for powder coat. Not much of an investment to give the bullet a slippery hard shell. Pound of powder from smoke (vendor here) a counter top toaster oven from thrift store or garage sale. Plastic bowl with lid (Cool Whip or other #5 plastic) some black airsoft BB's (Walmart may have them in stock or Smoke will) and you should be good to give it a go.

    You could if you wanted even lube in addition to PC but I doubt you will need to. Copper adds a bit of malleability if you will, and that might help. Get hard enough to be brittle and you may find your bullets break up and copper could help.

    Just curios. Why so much velocity? Longer range with better trajectory is all that comes to mind. Is that what you are after? Or just like the mountain climber said, because it's there.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy autopilotmp's Avatar
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    Rogerdat,
    Longer range with flatter trajectory. I will be trying pc on the NOE boolits. I have played with pc in the past with and without lube. I would prefer not to pc and may give copper a try. At 2700fps with the 70 gn boolit makes maximum point blank (4") @ 200 yds which would be great. Want something that I can use reliably in local 3 gun (ranges aren't much longer than this). My Lee 55 shoots okay at 100 but that's pushing it's range.

    Mostly just want to know what alloys are being used and which ones give an advantage in this particular caliber.

  11. #11
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    Hardball and Lyman #2 are same hardness but the Lyman has more tin so possibly can tolerate more rpm's due to greater malleability. If you wanted to you might add some WW's plus tin and antimony to get back to Lyman #2 or Hardball. The idea being WW's have trace amounts of arsenic that will enhance heat treating.

    You could look at foundry type alloy (individual letters for printing) that stuff is hard and tough. Approx. 30 BHN or Linotype is pretty hard at 22 BHN and tough. But they do note in the details it can tend to shatter on silhouette and steel targets.

    https://www.rotometals.com/bullet-casting-alloys/

    Lino https://www.rotometals.com/linotype-...y-and-84-lead/
    Foundry https://www.rotometals.com/foundry-t...mony-12-5-tin/

    Both of those as well as the super hard as a mix ingredient are a bit pricey but at 70 grain bullets you get 100 per pound so even with the most expensive foundry type metal it's $30 for ~500 bullets. Straight linotype is only $20. You can also reach out in swapping and selling as a WTB posting (Wanted To Buy) people sometimes have linotype or foundry/mono type for sale. Not foundry pure but not as expensive either.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check