Load Master is better than Dillon

[felix]

Anyone who can sell a gatling gun to the govt. is way cool! Yep, GE, for example, did just that with many improvements which brings the "mo-chine" up into this century. ... felix

[MBTcustom]

I paid $1895. for my new VW in 1963.
I could have bought a new Ford for a little less than twice that.
The VW was cheap, yeah,,, but everything worked on it.
I paid $2049 for my first new Datsun pickup.
I could have gotten a Ford for a little less than twice that.
Everything worked on the Datsun.

So whats your point? You bought a cheap machine to haul your butt to and from. That's exactly what the Lee crowd is doing. Sure it would be nice to have the brand spanking new Dillon, but for most folks, there is no way in heck that they could ever justify it for the amount of shooting they do.
I am only considering it because I am getting orders for 1000 rounds of ammo at a time. My time becomes much more important when I am loading in those volumes, but up to this point, I have been going single stage RC and a Hollywood turret press that I got from my dad. I just can't see even contemplating dropping $1000 for a press and accessories, when I can barely afford to buy powder and primers. I think there are a lot of folks in that boat.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Your joking aren't you?

If not why the hell don't they make the damned thing fit for purpose in the first place

No I'm not joking, but the parts do fit the press. What it say's is that you may have to modify a part or have them modify one for you to make it work with certain cases/calibers. This usually requires a pocket knife some sort of shim and a tube of super glue...perhaps a needle file. Even if i didn't use the case feeder it would still crank out ammo faster than a 550 will or at least just as fast (i don't think hand indexing slows one down if he's already having to place bullets by hand and cases in the shellplate) but it has the extra station needed for the M die.

[UNIQUEDOT]

that is like buying a new car then sending it back to the manufacturer to make what you want to work do what it is supposed to do.

No, it's like buying a car when you would have been better off with a pickup, but if need be you can always hook a trailer up to that car to get that odd job done.

[dromia]

No I'm not joking, but the parts do fit the press. What it say's is that you may have to modify a part or have them modify one for you to make it work with certain cases/calibers. This usually requires a pocket knife some sort of shim and a tube of super glue...perhaps a needle file. Even if i didn't use the case feeder it would still crank out ammo faster than a 550 will or at least just as fast (i don't think hand indexing slows one down if he's already having to place bullets by hand and cases in the shellplate) but it has the extra station needed for the M die.

Well so long as you think that is all right then Lee products are obviously the stuff for you, go to it my man and be happy.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Well so long as you think that is all right then Lee products are obviously the stuff for you, go to it my man and be happy.

It's not that it can't be adjusted to work with certain cases, but a modification would prevent tampering with adjustments. For instance if you set up the case feeder to work with large cases and then went to a small case you might not only have to change the large slider to a small slider, but you may have to readjust the case feeder depending on the case. When you change back to your other caliber you will have to readjust again, but by modifying a part such as gluing a shim in the small case slider you won't ever have to readjust the case feeder again... make a little more sense now?

[MBTcustom]

You know, the other thing about the Lee is that it's just cheap enough that you can try it out without being out too much money. I wish I had the money to buy 1 each Dillon, Hornady, and Lee. Get them home and set each one up to load 45ACP and figure out how long it takes to crank out 500 rounds from each one. Side by side comparison from a mechanically inclined person such as myself. Oh well, you pays your money and takes your choice I guess.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Goodsteel: Tim: if you are getting 1000 rnd orders for ammo consistantly you need to seriously look at tooling up for the job.

IF you are going to be doing commercial numbers you need to bite the bullet so to speak, for a Dillon 650 or really a 1050.

It's like trying to run a production job on a engine lathe when you really need a chucker or hand screw machine or even a CNC machine to do the job right. you can still do it, it's just going to take longer. Time is money!

The point is it all comes down to how many dollars per hour you're going to make. Payback time on any machine purchase has to be evaluated. But your time is also part of the equation. Once you have decided that the machine has paid for itself then, it's all about how much product you can make in 1 hour. That deliniates how much per hour you are making for your trouble.

You need to make twice as much as you think you need!

You can get by for a while taking more time to do a given job, but if you're going to be serious about it you have to obtain the machinery to do the job in the most efficient manner possible within the confines of your abilities and finances. Obviously the less time you are working on the machine the more time you are producing, so down time is a factor also.

A new $2000 Dillon 1050 would pay for itself in about 100,000 rounds and save you 50% or more on time invested. you could go nearly as fast with a Dillon 650 which would cost you less than $800 new to get up and running but would require more maintenance to keep running. There are also used machines out there which lowers your entry into the market but might require some updating or maintenance.

Similarly a Magma casting machine and an automated star sizer is the the way to make Boolits.

In another thread I talked about shotshell loaders. I have three. I have a Pacific DL266 single stage which works like a MEC and I can load about 125 rounds per hour. 6 pulls of the handle to make each round... I have a Pacific DL366 which is the Toyota of progressive shotshell loaders that I can load about 400 rnds per hour. I also have a Spolar which I can load 900 per hour! All three machines make perfect reloaded shotshells and the Spolar takes exactly the same amount of effort to load each round as the Pacific but produces more than twice as much product in one hour. The 266 is not even in the picture and is just something to use as a backup or for special loads.

The Spolar is just a better piece of machinery. It is also 3 times the cost of a new Hornaday DL366.

I paid $50 for the 266 and $150 for the 366 Both screamin' deals, and I could resell both for double easily. I also got a screamin' deal on the Spolar, and I won't say how screamin', but I could resell the machine in 15 minutes on Trapshooters.com for $15-1600. It is a highly desirable machine and commands a higher price because of this. I'm talking Bentley here. And beleive me they are "that good"!

A complete joy to operate! This is worth more $ !

Resale of a Dillon is also high, IE you can get your money back out easily. Just ask Alverex Kelly. This is big part of investing in quality machinery. It has higher resale than the inexpensive stuff. The Dillon stuff resells high because of their warrantee and they will rebuild it for free or nearly free. So you are always buying a used,,, but essentially new,,, machine.

You need to look at the procurrment of machinery as an investment in your business. And once you truly consider all of the factors you'll see why the phrase " buy the best ,,, only cry once!" is indeed valid.

My father coined that phrase and first told me when I was about 12 years old. I didn't fully understand what it meant until I was in business for myself.

The other phrase I'm sure you've heard is that "second hand is better than second rate"

No place is that more is that more meaningful than in machinery for your livelyhood. Always buy the best you can afford, and if you can't afford the best,,, then upgrade as soon as you can.

Randy

[MBTcustom]

Yeah, you pretty much summed up my thoughts there Randy. The only thing is, I don't have that many orders for ammo, and I have other irons in the fire. I'm still deciding if I really want to go that rout. Just because I can, doesn't mean that I should, you know?

[garym1a2]

A Lee Classic turrent press is not hard to run 200 rounds per hour in 9mm and 45ACP. The Loadmaster will easy run 500-600 rounds per hour if you feed it primed cases and setup the case feeder properly. The case feeder and the indexer on mine work decent. The primer feeder is a bear, being on the backside of the machine and priming on the up stroke you do not see a problem till it messes up. Than you can also count on a loss primer and maybe a smashed case plus dumping the charge in stage 3.

That said I only run 40S&W on the loadmaster, 9mm and 45acp go on Lee Classic turrent press. The 40S&W is primed and sized on the lee classic cast press than run thru the loadmaster.

My bench has a loadmaster, classic cast turrent, classic cast single stage, challanger, and a hand press. Plus a perfect powder measure and 3 autodisc pro powder measures. So I am not a Lee hater.

I also have three Lee 6Up molds, But I still think the Lee Loadmaster STINKS!

You know, the other thing about the Lee is that it's just cheap enough that you can try it out without being out too much money. I wish I had the money to buy 1 each Dillon, Hornady, and Lee. Get them home and set each one up to load 45ACP and figure out how long it takes to crank out 500 rounds from each one. Side by side comparison from a mechanically inclined person such as myself. Oh well, you pays your money and takes your choice I guess.

[Longwood]

So whats your point?


.

My point is,,,
When I put out my hard earned money for something that is made for a job, I expect it to work, out of the box, without having to watch a bunch of video's and screw with it for hours to get it to work fairly well.

[Ola]

LEE and primer explosions: could someone please post a picture (or a link to one) that shows why the LEE priming system explodes? I'm really curious because just here in Finland I know 3 different cases.
Results were:
-1 blind eye
-1 def ear
(-1 no injuries, thanks to use of shooting classes while reloading)

[r1kk1]

My point is,,,
When I put out my hard earned money for something that is made for a job, I expect it to work, out of the box, without having to watch a bunch of video's and screw with it for hours to get it to work fairly well.

+ 1

AGREED!

r1kk1

[imashooter2]

Kraschenbirn, you said you had an SDB, did you like your SDB - I liked mine. I thought it was great -I suggested on another forum that a man that shoots straight walled pistol cases only shoud definately consider the SDB over the 550. This caused an immediate respose. Many respondents suggested anyone that could rate an SDB over a 550 had to be an idiot, communist or worse - "Only a fool would prefer an SDB over a 550".

Yea, well - is this a great country or what?

Jerry

I have an SDB and a 550 on my bench. The SDB is my tool of choice.

[Longwood]

LEE and primer explosions: could someone please post a picture (or a link to one) that shows why the LEE priming system explodes? I'm really curious because just here in Finland I know 3 different cases.
Results were:
-1 blind eye
-1 def ear
(-1 no injuries, thanks to use of shooting classes while reloading)

Someone sells a blast shield.
I am surprised they do not come with all of the presses.
I guess they are waiting for the lawsuit that makes them send everyone a free shield.

[fryboy]

ummm even a bentley comes with an owners manual , and a person who didnt know how to drive couldnt ( just saying the overlooked obvious ) in fact many hours have been spent learning how to drive ( be it a car or a progressive press ) true that some folks take longer to learn than others and some never do , just as some folks can drive great ...until you throw them in a car with a manual transmission . i have a loadmaster , it's currently in a "set it and forget it" mode ,ie; it's been cranking out 45 acp ammo for about two years now ( appox 6,000+ rounds ) very few problems once i got it running ...getting it running was another matter entirely as i received it used and the hardest part ? un-bubba'ing what the previous owner bubba'd up and replacing some parts that they thought wasnt needed ( or something ) yeah it's got a learning curve ( just like driving ANY car ) but i actually prefer lee's pro 1000 for pistol rounds ( but like many wish that it had an extra hole )

[Lloyd Smale]

you kind of got me there. Even i do like lee dies and some of there small tools like there primer tool and there zip trimmers. Its the progressive presses that i think are junk. some other pieces of junk they make are there powder measures, scales and even there base model single stage press. I had to about laugh at my buddy and it was at my own expense. He wanted to start loading. I didnt think he was really serious so i told him to by one of the lee challeger single stage kits. I figured if he didnt like loading he wasnt out much. Well i have to admit if i would have opened that box of junk when i started loading i probably wouldnt have loaded long either. the press was stiff and cheap feeling, the scale and measure looked like something youd buy for a 4 year old kid to play with. Right out of the gate i threw the measure and scale in the trash and gave him a set of rcbs units i had for spares. After about 2 months he ended up with my old lyman orange crusher press too. About the only good that came with that kit was the lee primer the shell plate sets and the case lube pad and lube. I dont know if the cheapened that single stage press up when they went to the lock and load bushing style of if he just got a bad one but his was sure a ***. By the way he bought 4 sets of lee dies at the same time and there still going strong.

This may be true with some things, but not all things. One example would be with Lee dies. just look at the engineering that went into the design of the carbide insert in the pistol die which makes cases look better than those from other manufacturers. What about the fact that they are the only die manufacturer that produces dies with all, but a certainty that there will be no internal warping by finishing the dies after they are heat treated and to top it off they have a smoother internal finish than any of the other manufacturers in their rifle sizers. If you don't want to take their word for it you can compare them to the others which is what i did. Also their newer rifle die expanders are of a design that would be hard to improve on.

Also take a look at the wonderful design engineering that went into the collet dies. BTW i have dies from Lee, Lyman, RCBS, forster, Hornady, lachmiller, and Herter's and regardless of cost none of them are any better than Lee's (most not as good when it comes to internals) even those that have copied them and all of the others that are still in production are more expensive. Now one thing about RCBS dies is they don't rust as easily as any of the others even when touching them with sweaty hands as long as they are cleaned after use and they sure don't rust in storage.

[perotter]

My point is,,,
When I put out my hard earned money for something that is made for a job, I expect it to work, out of the box, without having to watch a bunch of video's and screw with it for hours to get it to work fairly well.

I take it you have never bought any $100,000 - $350,000 pieces of industrial equipment.

[Ola]

Someone sells a blast shield.
I am surprised they do not come with all of the presses.
I guess they are waiting for the lawsuit that makes them send everyone a free shield.

You mean this?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/533...tNumber=533868

A 5 dollar part? You are absolutely right! It is just amazing that they do not include it in every press they sell.

BTW the reviews of the product are quite interesting: People are buying it AFTER an explosion. Some guy tells that he had 6 primers in the tube when it went off. In one those cases here (Finland) it was almost 100 primers: shooting classes saved his eyes but other ear is now deaf. Would that deflector have saved his hearing?

I took a long look at the Lee Load-Master Progressive Press priming system. The mass explosion is just a chain reaction: One primer ignites the next one and so on. The primer seating station should not be so close to the bulk of of primers. IMO the solution should NOT be the deflector but to completely redesign of the priming system.

[perotter]

...the scale and measure looked like something youd buy for a 4 year old kid to play with. Right out of the gate i threw the measure and scale in the trash ...

Gee you have a good eye, being able to just look at a scale & know that it won't come up with the correct weight.