Which .450 Marlin rifle: Browning BLR or Winchester 94?

[Texas by God]

I built a .450 Marlin bolt action and I've owned many 45-70s. The .450 is a smart version of the .458x2 wildcat. The belt is thicker front to back to prevent an idiot from touching one off in his 7mm mag etc. It is a great round IME with cast and jacketed. AND it'll work in guns the 45-70 won't.
Is the model BLR that you picked a .450?
The 45-70 is the All American Classic, I love it.
Porting is not my thing except on 18-1/2" 12 gauge shotguns.

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[MG1913]

Yes, .450 Marlin. I decided not to get the ported Winchester.

[Ramjet-SS]

I didn’t want to write a novel in my first post on this forum, but I guess I should have given a little bit of backstory on my unusual request. I’m not a new hunter, per se, as I hunt every deer rifle season in Southwest VA with my cousin’s family and their friends, who have been hunting in that area their entire lives. The fact that I don’t own my own rifle probably tells you something; I’m a city-slicker and did not grow up hunting. And I do not currently own my own rifle. I always borrow rifles from my cousin’s collection. I work mainly overseas and haven’t been able to get into rifles. In fact, I’m in Afghanistan right now as I type these words. So I haven’t been able to get into handloading, either.

When I go hunting, I show up, I get a rifle to shoot, my cousin assures me that the sights are on, and off we go. We either hunt from a permanent tree stand or from the ground, against a tree. The woods are thick, but it’s not jungle brush type woods. Around the trees, it’s pretty clear. The shots are maybe 100 yards maximum. Last season, I got a button buck at maybe 15 yards. I was holding right behind his shoulder at the vitals, but I hit him in the gut with my cousin’s .270. He dropped like a stone. My cousin’s friend, who was right behind me when I made the shot, speculated that the bullet had deflected off a twig (there were a few branches close to the shot, but I wasn’t shooting through thick brush), hit the little buck’s ribs, and deflected back into the vitals.

Now that I’m in Afghanistan and making a little money, I thought I’d buy myself a hunting rifle to suit my hunting conditions as my treat to myself this year. I am going back home for deer rifle season, and I’ll show up a few weeks early to sight-in and practice with my new rifle. I’ve been researching hunting rifles that would best suit my situation and hunting conditions, and I decided on a big bore “brush gun” type of rifle with a low-power scope. My cousin and his friends all use high power rifles with 3-9x scopes. I don’t know why; I’ve seen them turn deer meat into deer jelly with 30 yard shots from a magnum rifle, and I’ve even watched them complaining about it while skinning deer. They swear they can kill deer at 600 yards, but I honestly don’t think any of them has ever shot a deer at anywhere near those distances. I don’t understand it, at all. I definitely don’t think I need anything more than a good, heavy bullet and low power scope that’s good out to 100 yards. 200 yards would be a bonus, but I am 99% sure I’ll never take a shot at that range.

Anyway, I got to talking to some people about my plans, and one guy was absolutely insistent that I should get a .450 Marlin Browning BLR. I mean, he can talk about the BLR at length, and he sends me all kinds of reports and links, etc. I’m sure he is a very good hunter with that .450 Marlin BLR, although he does mostly hunt elk. So he convinced me to get one. On the face of it, this is indeed a rifle that meets my criteria and needs. And Browning doesn’t make a BLR in 45-70, unfortunately, so .450 Marlin it is.

From there, I started looking into ammo. As you all know, factory .450 Marlin loads run pretty hot -- more suitable for elk or bigger game. So I contacted a custom ammo maker, a professional who mostly works for safari hunters and competition shooters, and he agreed to make me a more appropriate .450 Marlin load for whitetails. So these aren’t Bubba’s back porch handloader specials; these are professionally-made handloads. So that’s the backstory on the handloads and why I’m getting the ammo before the rifle.

I was all set to go with the BLR, but then I saw that Winchester also makes a .450 Marlin “Short Rifle,” which looks more traditional. I didn’t know anything about it, and I couldn’t find any information about it (in fact, I’m not convinced that anyone has ever bought one!), but I thought, “What the heck?” I might as well look into it. That’s why I posted here, to see if maybe somebody had owned or shot or hunted with both and could give me the rundown on the pros and cons. Well, I’ve read all these posts with great interest. And I acknowledge that there are certainly some good arguments to get a 45-70.

I know that going with a 45-70 would fling the doors wide open on whitetail-appropriate factory rounds, but I don’t want to blow off the professional ammo-maker, since he actually spent a good bit of time talking to me and researching for me. I know he hasn’t started making the loads yet, and I don’t need them until November, but he might have already procured the components. I could always just let him know I need 45-70 ammo instead of .450 Marlin now, and he could just return the .450 Marlin casings and get 45-70 casings. The load would be virtually identical, I’m sure, so it wouldn’t be a major inconvenience for him, and he’ll still get paid. It’s not a major outlay: I ordered 100 rounds @ $268 shipped. I can’t reload myself right now. As I said, I’m in Afghanistan and have been since July. I’ve never reloaded before, and I can’t ship the equipment or components to myself here. Maybe in a few years when I’m back stateside permanently, I can get into reloading.

I’ve gotten no feedback, at all, on the Winchester 94 Short Rifle, and some folks here have echoed the BLR’s praises (which tracks with everything I’ve been reading). The only real complaint about the BLR seems to be the trigger, but Neil Jones can fix that, according to everything I’ve read. $120 dolla’ make you holla’. I’m also not convinced that .450 Marlin brass will disappear. Searching these forums, it seems that people have been saying that for years, and yet, even after Marlin discontinued their .450 Marlin guns, other manufacturers are still making them (granted not a lot of them!), and ammo and components seem to be readily available. Just to be sure, though, when I get back stateside, I’ll buy a few thousand cases and call it a lifetime supply. Following the advice I’ve gotten from this thread, I looked at all the available 45-70 rifles, online, since I can’t actually go to a store and try them out. The Henry H010 looks like a good, handy 45-70, and people seem to like it. There seems to be some ongoing controversy over the new “Remlins.” Sadly, Browning and Winchester do not make a 45-70, except for a few special edition Winchesters with crescent metal butt plates. There are a few custom 45-70 makes (Ranger Point Precision, Grizzly, Brockman, Wild West Guns, etc.). That wouldn’t be beyond the pale for me, as I’ve got the cash right now, and this is my special rifle for me, after all. Bottom line, every rifle seems to have its admirers and its detractors.

Anyway, I’ve made my decision: I’m getting the Browning BLR, but not one of the models I mentioned above. I’m going to go with the sightless Monte Carlo stock version (see pics below), as I plan to mount a Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x24 scope, which is a true 1x scope, so I don’t see any need for irons. Once I get back stateside in November, I’ll post some pics and a hunting report/rifle and ammo review. I might hunt two states (NH and VA) this season, touch wood.

Nice setup love the Trijicon Scopes

[Texas by God]

Stock up on the .450 brass and enjoy. You can even use 45-70 dies to load it without crimping. Top loads with 405grs resemble .375 H&H recoil so hang on!

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[Harles Dawson]

I have a BLR in .358 Winchester. Trigger is pretty good on mine. Most of my shots at deer are 100 yds or less. I cast my own NOE 360-230 WFN bullets and get 3 shot 1 1/4” groups at 100 yds with them. I bet you’ll love your BLR when you get it! Be sure to come home safe! Harles

[303Guy]

I could live with that rifle. What's not to like? Lever action turnbolt, box magazine, exposed hammer - yup, I could live with one of those.

[Wayne Smith]

Virginia mountains and New Hampshire - you are right, not a lot of long shots in either unless you are hunting power lines. I would have been happy with my 30-30, but you get what makes you happy. After all, I'm ordering a 25 Krag AI10degree barrel for my Encore, I can't argue with your choices! Do get set up to reload that round, you have a lot of choices of boolit and might look at the Lyman 457122 Gould HP to start. It is the original eastern hunting boolit for the 45-70, useable in the 450.

[MG1913]

... you have a lot of choices of boolit and might look at the Lyman 457122 Gould HP to start. It is the original eastern hunting boolit for the 45-70, useable in the 450.

Thanks, Wayne. In fact, I'm reading about that Gould bullet right now. I found this interesting article from LASC: http://www.lasc.us/FryxellExpansionOfCastHP.htm

The article specifically recommends that bullet, and it says that a cast HP at a BHN of 10-13 and a velocity of 1200-1600 FPS will expand "beautifully" and push through medium-sized game such as the whitetails I will be shooting. I ran the numbers through a ballistic calculator (Lyman's says the BC of the 457122 is .274) at 1500 FPS at the muzzle: it would produce muzzle energy of 1649 ft.-lbs. So it looks like this would be a very effective whitetail load, and it would also have very manageable recoil. That's exactly what I'm looking for. I wish I was stateside right now. I'd buy all the stuff I needed and start reloading today. Unfortunately, I'm here.

[Wayne Smith]

When you are stateside where are you? I have the Gould mold and both I and my best friend use it - me for my Encore 45-70 and he for his son's Marlin. His son is generally opposed to cast boolits (likes to shoot hard and fast) but when he saw the accuracy his Dad was getting with the Gould he started to like it. When he shot it he loved it. His Dad comes over and cast 100 at a time.

[MG1913]

When you are stateside where are you? I have the Gould mold and both I and my best friend use it - me for my Encore 45-70 and he for his son's Marlin. His son is generally opposed to cast boolits (likes to shoot hard and fast) but when he saw the accuracy his Dad was getting with the Gould he started to like it. When he shot it he loved it. His Dad comes over and cast 100 at a time.

Hi, Wayne. I'm currently in Kabul, Afghanistan. I get back in November. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get into handloading just yet, as I'll only have three weeks of vacation before I have to come back here. I'm hoping to be back stateside for good (for at least a few years) in 2019. I just ordered the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook so that I can at least start reading while I'm here.

[Ramjet-SS]

Lots of great data for reloading the 450 Marlin. I started out many years ago with the 458 X 2" American In a Ruger #1 the 450 is right there with it. I think it is a fun and great caliber with allot of flexibility the Ballistic tip 30@ grain for, Nosler is dandy bullet that can be pushed pretty fast as can the Barnes X bullets. I have great success with the Gould or even a Mihec 325 grain HP mould. Stay safe and when you get close Pm me I will send you some cast boolits to try in your gun.

[725]

MG1913 - First of all, welcome aboard CASTBOOLITS. Hope you enjoy it here. Glad you decided to get what you want, just because you want it. There is a wide range of usefulness out of that brass. You can make it wild or mild by reloading. The Gould is a fine boolit when driven mildly. There are many boolits & bullets to choose from and you will have years of fun "experimenting". One good bit of prior advice to heed: Get a stock pile of that brass now. Salt it away as I fear that cartridge will be hard to find in the future. You may want to look into annealing as a way to extend the life of your brass. Shoot it mild & anneal, and you can make it go a long way. Best of luck. 725

[Wayne Smith]

You mentioned the Virginia Mts. I'm in the Virgina seacoast - but closer than New Hampshire (we moved from Concord 23 years ago) and I have the Gould mold. If you had the opportunity to visit Virginia Beach I could set some up for you.

I also have an old Lee Group Buy 420gr mold with an amazing meplat.

[Texas by God]

My .450 liked the 340 gr better than the Lyman 405gr and recoilwise- so did I.

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[MG1913]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the offers, it is greatly appreciated. Very generous of you. It'll be a while before I'm able to get into handloading. When I'm back stateside permanently, I might try a few boolits! I'll definitely look into getting a bunch of .450 Marlin brass just in case, and I'll keep it in storage. I'll also be sure to save the brass from the ammo I'm getting made.

[Texas by God]

I would love another one- this time in a short action bolt gun like a Reminton m7 or 700.

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[Ramjet-SS]

I have a Encore 16"+ muzzle brake carbine barrel it is a handy powerful little rifle in 450 Marlin and that gun shoots everything really accurate.

[JFE]

I like the handy size of the 94, but the ported barrel would be a non starter for me.

BLR's with pistol grips seem to work better with scopes and straight grips (traditional style stocks) work better with open sights. The Monte Carlo style should give you a better cheek weld but doesn't look all that 'traditional'. When Winchester introduced Monte Carlo stocks on their BB94's in the 80's they only lasted about a year before they were dropped. They handled well if you were using a scope but buyers wanted the traditional look.

Eating up to the bullet hole hole is all about the bullet and speed. Send a lightly constructed 300gr HP out at well over 2000fps and strike a small deer in the chest and you'll end up with innards like they've been through a blender. The custom load you have would be a good place to start as it largely duplicates factory 45/70 loads in 300gr.

Another feature of the BLR that's not often mentioned is that the factory magazine is blocked. With a little work you could increase the cartridge length to 2.8" which could provide greater loading options.

[MG1913]

Well, we're getting close! I've got less than 2 weeks before I catch a plane out of this **** hole and back home! My rifle and scope are both with my FFL right now. I decided to pair the BLR with a Trijicon AccuPower 1-4x24 scope with green BDC reticle. We've decided to opt for the Talley mounts that are specifically made for the BLR. FFL sent me a pic last night of the scope and gun.



Here are the Talleys:

[Texas by God]

Swing through Texas and I'll give you some ammo! Thank you for your service!