Gould Bullet in .45 Rifles

[Themoose]

I tried to get at this in another sub forum without much luck, so I'LL try here. I want a 330-350 gr bullet to shoot in my inlines and caplocks. I slugged a couple Knights and came up with .460(widest measurements from bottom of grease grooves) I don't have the tools or brain power to actually measure depth of grooves. Thinking true bore size is probably near .451 or .452. I have some cast Gould's that mic @ .460 but way too big to seat easily with ramrod. Not sure if I need custom mold or get a Gould and run them through a sizer. Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.( I do want to shoot this bullet as a full bore lubed bullet, but also size it down to .446 to paperpatch)

[Bent Ramrod]

The obsolete “Sharps Bailey” design sounds like what you want. It was a conventional flat point with multiple grease grooves that could be had in weights from 275 to 485 grains. The designation was Ideal 451112.

I think something of this sort is still available for the Pedersoli “Volunteer” rifles that are again coming out.

You may find something in Accurate’s designs that look like the 451112, or the 457122 or 457192, and just ask them for that design in a diameter you specify, say, 0.450-0.451”. Getting a hollow point a la the Gould bullet will entail extra work and expense. I don’t think Accurate does that; you’d have to send it to a specialist.

For a paper patch boolit, I would go with something slick sided that casts maybe 0.443-0.444” in your alloy and patch it up with 0.0015” tracing paper. Accurate makes dual cavity moulds and can give you one cavity of each type design. I got one from them that casts a 0.380” grease groove copy of the Ideal 375248, and a 0.374” smooth side for paper patching in my oversized bore original .38-55. I can use the latter patched up normally for the oversize groove diameter, or with a one-wrap Chase patch for modern 0.375” groove diameters. I size it down for regular patching in my 0.375” diameter rebored Highwall.

Accurate has a bunch of designs, and I’ve been able to pick the ones I want and get the diameters and lengths (in paper patch) I want at no extra cost, IIRC. A different outside shape might entail extra costs, but I’ve always been able to use what’s on their list.

[Themoose]

Bent Ramrod,

Thank you very much for your suggestion.. I had never considered a mold with different designs... that may be the ticket.. I will have to check it out...

Thanks again,

TheMoose

[1Hawkeye]

Moose did you see my responce to your question in the other section? It may be of help.

[Saxtonyoung]

I've had success sizing the Gould mold (457122), 457193 and 457121 all down to .450 or .451 but the lead needs to be close to pure lead. Harder alloys such as wheel weights can also be sized down that far also but is easier done shortly after bullets have been poured because WW will age harden over the next couple of weeks. I may have actually shot more deer with the 457193 bullet than any other. In my case I was using WW for the bullets and because I was using 100 grains of 777 they had no trouble upsetting and filling the bore of a 45 caliber Omega upon ignition. I also have taken Doc Whites advice in sighting the muzzleloader at 125 yards so shots made out to 150 yards can be taken without a hold over consideration.

[Themoose]

Thanks guys for the input... 1Hawkeye I did see your post, we have been dealing with some serious medical issues this week and I guess the stress was getting to me... apologize for not getting back with you sooner.... I will look up the Arsenal molds... thanks again all.

Kindest regards,

TheMoose

[Good Cheer]

457124 is my very much un-extreme boolit.
Lots of lube grooves volume for shooting lubed and by the same token it sizes down easily when paper patched because it does have wide grooves and not so wide lands. And having the wide grooves means it has a good barrel contact length for it's weight, which is middle of the road so to speak, not too big and not too small, just right. Being plain base it's easier to get to seal off than a gas check base in the rifling geometry of the reworked New Englander, which is darn near a seven sided polygon with flattened points due to the trapezoidal grooves. Much better for cleaning than square grooves by the way. This isn't for long range target shooting but got it for over kill smack down as far as I can shoot with open sights and of course pleasant shooting for enjoyment... just a 45-90 carbine shooting caseless ammo.

[Tatume]

One of my rifles was made with a Green Mountain 45-70 barrel blank. I shoot the Lyman 451114 bullet in it, as well as in my Parker-Hale Volunteer rifle. It is very accurate in both. Here's a picture and description:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/49...rain-volunteer

[Themoose]

Update: I took bought some cast bullets from local BP shop yesterday and tried them in a couple of the .45's.. They were cast and lubed @ .460... definite no go... then I sized them with the dies I had available to .459, .458,.457 and .452... all seemed to tight to my liking.. the .452 could work, if I shot it like bench shooters at Friendship using a hammer to seat in their chunk guns... too tight for a hunting load... I also noticed that the lube grooves diminished as they were resized to the point of probably not being able to retain enough lube for the purpose... I did find that I had some Gould's that I had cast from pure lead that were buried in a box deep on the shelf... thought my journey was over... but pretty much the same result... thinking I need a .451`for my rifles... I did also find about 50 bullets I had cast using a .451 volunteer mold @ 400 grains(sadly got rid of that mold years ago)... they fit well... still none met my objective of a lighter bullet of 330-350 grains for the .45's. Rethinking my goal... may just go with a paper patch design and getting lighter bullets for the 50 & 45 in say 380-400gr for .50 and .350 for the .45 with both designs being solids(no HP) with a wider meplat for increased lethality...

Thanks for everyone's help

[Tatume]

My bullets are sized 0.450" for practice and 0.451" for hunting. They shoot to the same point of impact with the same accuracy. I use the larger bullet for hunting to reduce the chance of it moving off the charge during a day in the field.

[Themoose]

Tatme, Thanks for quick comeback... How is the lubing on them when sized down to your finished size? Do you pan lube or lube-size with a die? Lube used?
I've got the 400 grain covered with my 407gr PP RCBS 11mm cast from pure lead... but the Gould from pure lead ran around 343gr.. was concerned about accuracy and lubing?

Thanks again.

TheMoose

[Tatume]

My practice is to lube with my fingertips using SPG, then run the bullets through the sizer die (T/C Bore Butter also works well). The bullets I recommended only size down about 0.001" so not much material is displaced. I usually only do 10 - 20 at a time.

[Saxtonyoung]

A couple more options would be the Lee 445-290M and 450-294M. Have not tried them yet but believe both could be patch patched and the .450 could be used as is or sized and lube. If you don't like the hollow base I believe a little file work could alter the pin which of course would add extra weight to the bullet. The .445 is a discontinued mold but show up regularly on eBay, in fact a quick check shows there are 2 available at this time, 1 of them could be shipped to your house for $20. Just used my calipers on the .445 mold and looked like it will cast about a .840 long bullet which should be great for the 1-30" twist.

Like I said I have not used these 2 particular molds I have used the 500-360M in 1-28" twist barrels and liked the results. Because it was hollow base this bullet had no problem bumping up to fill the grooves even though I cast with a harder alloy (wheel weights),sized and lubed to .500 for a slip fit bullet.

[Themoose]

Tatume, I apologize to you sir...I had thought(incorrectly) you also used the Gould bullet and reduced it to .451... Guess a combination of "senior moment" and too many irons in the fire at the moment...

TheMoose

[Tatume]

Unnecessary, but accepted. But remember, there's something to be said about no re-inventing the wheel.