Swiss or Olde Eynsford users?

[rodwha]

if i was into cap guns, most any brand of powder would do me fine. but i only use flintlocks and that's where a better powder (swiss!) is really best, particularly since i use one horn of 3f for both tube and pan.

What makes it better in a flintlock vs a caplock?

[rfd]

it's all about what goes in the pan. swiss is just better, particularly if you don't wanna use a separate primer of 4f, and want it all to happen with a single 3f horn. plus, swiss just offers more horsepower and less fouling. of all the mass produced bp's, none are better than swiss. if ya can get it. getting any black powder is just going to get harder here in the USA ... signs of the times.

3f in the tube and pan, good ignition in a smoothie .62 bore ...

[rodwha]

it's all about what goes in the pan. swiss is just better, particularly if you don't wanna use a separate primer of 4f, and want it all to happen with a single 3f horn. plus, swiss just offers more horsepower and less fouling. of all the mass produced bp's, none are better than swiss. if ya can get it. getting any black powder is just going to get harder here in the USA ... signs of the times.

Hmmm... On the traditional forum there are many who use standard powders and prime with 3F without issue. Can’t say I’ve read of this.

As to fouling who wouldn’t want one that leaves less?

And I get the horsepower issue as long as it’s a muzzleloading rifle or paper punching. It’s not a big deal there. But hunting with a handgun is another story for sure. But if I can use 15% less powder and get 35% more velocity I’m sold. And to use far less to achieve the same performance is how much powder and at what cost?

[rfd]

i have no problem pan priming with good ol' goex 2f, and have even gone down to 1-1/2f of goex. but for me, swiss 3f is just flat out Better, Faster, Cleaner. so i don't mind the swiss $$ up charge. yes, some are concerned with scales of economy, and that might be a compromise, and that's fine, it's about choices and the amount of discretionary pocketbook jingle.

[rodwha]

i have no problem pan priming with good ol' goex 2f, and have even gone down to 1-1/2f of goex. but for me, swiss 3f is just flat out Better, Faster, Cleaner. so i don't mind the swiss $$ up charge. yes, some are concerned with scales of economy, and that might be a compromise, and that's fine, it's about choices and the amount of discretionary pocketbook jingle.

No doubt.

Have you tried Olde Eynsford? Most people who have have switched. Only one who has compared it to Swiss wasn’t quite as happy but also noted it was close and far better than other powders he had tried. It certainly costs less, is likely to be more available in a store as it’s made by Goex, and supports American jobs.

I have not tried Swiss but figure I’ll have to one of these days. I’m not so sure I’d notice a difference with my offhand pistol shooting but maybe it would make a difference in my rifle. And using more energetic powders I’ve also considered trying 2F which would still well outpace the standard 3F powders and give suitable performance from my revolvers to feel comfortable hunting with them.

[rfd]

yes, i went through almost a pound of OE 3f in flintlock rifles and smoothbores, good stuff indeed, better than standard goex.

however, swiss still has an edge over OE, at least for me - no matter what lot number of swiss i use.

[rodwha]

yes, i went through almost a pound of OE 3f in flintlock rifles and smoothbores, good stuff indeed, better than standard goex.

however, swiss still has an edge over OE, at least for me - no matter what lot number of swiss i use.

Seems as though you were one/the one then who had tried both and still preferred Swiss.

[rodwha]

Quite frankly I’d need to see a remarkable difference to switch to Swiss. As is I still need to work on an accurate load for my rifle as it’s merely just broken in now and I finally broke down and got spectacles. With a ball I wasn’t doing so well at 50 yds (3-4” groups) but then I was using Pyrodex and not adjusting powder charge (70 grns), patches, balls (I likely won’t and will stick to my .490” mold), or lubes (wife only allowed me to use her grape seed oil. Gave me a real mean look when I grabbed her olive oil and she asked why). Now the 320 grn REAL was another story with that powder charge with the few I tried.

[rfd]

lots might depend on the bp application - bpcr, flint or cap - then add in whatever subjective (objective?) personal opinions to the mix. with my trad ml rifles they're all slow twist patched balls, and the patched balls and shot loads for the smoothies - swiss 3f. for the bpcr rollers and sharps it's hands down swiss 1-1/2f. it's all good, they all go bang one way or t'other.

[indian joe]

So I went back and got the cost of Grafs powder (rebranded Schuetzen) since it’s the one with the weight and velocity shown that I used in place of standard Goex, which isn’t exactly accurate as we don’t have a listed weight for it, and Graf’s powder is cheaper than standard Goex.

At $15.99/lb the cost per shot is a mere $0.064 per 30 grn volume of powder and is certainly cheaper than the others if bought from Grafs.

I looked at prices from Powder Inc -- dont know how old and I think they included ship and hazmat for 5 lb order - Swiss 34.70, Wano/scheutzen 29.75, Ole E 30.50, GoexFFF 29.10 ------at those prices I wouldnt even think about Wano - should be way more difference between it and Swiss I thought . All academic for me - we get the choice of Wano or Swiss - can buy Wano - per kilo - around $65 - $70 and Swiss high side of $100 (dont know exactly how high) - the split is $23 versus $37+ (per pound - your money) -- makes for a more choosey choice -

[rodwha]

At that price difference it does make a bigger difference. It’s rather outrageous and hard for me to understand how they can stay in business with prices as high as that. The price you show for Wano is nearly what Grafs sells Swiss for.

[Edward]

I looked at prices from Powder Inc -- dont know how old and I think they included ship and hazmat for 5 lb order - Swiss 34.70, Wano/scheutzen 29.75, Ole E 30.50, GoexFFF 29.10 ------at those prices I wouldnt even think about Wano - should be way more difference between it and Swiss I thought . All academic for me - we get the choice of Wano or Swiss - can buy Wano - per kilo - around $65 - $70 and Swiss high side of $100 (dont know exactly how high) - the split is $23 versus $37+ (per pound - your money) -- makes for a more choosey choice -

Fedex is delivering tuesday a case of OE 1 1/2 F /2F for the total sum of 497.50 from Powder inc /Nice folks ! Think that"s about $17.00 or so ,that"s pretty current pricing /Ed

[rodwha]

Fedex is delivering tuesday a case of OE 1 1/2 F /2F for the total sum of 497.50 from Powder inc /Nice folks ! Think that"s about $17.00 or so ,that"s pretty current pricing /Ed

I’m a bit curious what other powders (BP) you were well enough acquainted with that you’ve tried and how they compared.

[Edward]

I’m a bit curious what other powders (BP) you were well enough acquainted with that you’ve tried and how they compared.

This case is for my C Sharps 45/70, 15lbs 1 1/2F and 10 Lbs 2F . I shoot long (for me)750 yds across the street on club property and used O.E 2F and 3F when I ran out of 2Fall last year but never tried 1 1/2 F . Mostly P.P. with a Baco 443-530 Elliptical but just finished a bunch of Postell boolits for tomorrow if the sun ever comes out .O .E . seems to do a lot better than Goex for me and that is all the experience I have with BP in cartridge or muzzle loaders /Ed

[rodwha]

This case is for my C Sharps 45/70, 15lbs 1 1/2F and 10 Lbs 2F . I shoot long (for me)750 yds across the street on club property and used O.E 2F and 3F when I ran out of 2Fall last year but never tried 1 1/2 F . Mostly P.P. with a Baco 443-530 Elliptical but just finished a bunch of Postell boolits for tomorrow if the sun ever comes out .O .E . seems to do a lot better than Goex for me and that is all the experience I have with BP in cartridge or muzzle loaders /Ed

So why did you feel OE was better than standard Goex for you? What made it better?

My decision to forgo any other powders was the revolver performance. But I’ve seen responses from shooters a few times that claim what they get from standard Goex is excellent and not worth jacking with. And I get that to a degree when you figure what all they went through to find an accurate load. But would they have been happier had things worked out differently and ended up working with Swiss or Olde E? Many of these guys are older and began well before Swiss was readily available and Olde as was created.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

OE, cleaner, higher velocity, excellent consistent SD between shots.

[Golfswithwolves]

Can any of you Swiss or OE users tell me what muzzle velocities you get with 20 grains of powder and round balls from a .36 revolver? Thanks in advance

Today I shot a cylinder-full each of Swiss 3F and GOEX 3F in my Colt's 1851 Navy. I used .375 balls with a Wonder Wad split in half thickness and a dab of 85/15 Crisco/beeswax UNDER each ball. I did not try 20 grains of powder as per the request but I did use 22 grains of each type of powder (my usual load, so I used it instead of 20 grains). The average velocity I got with the Swiss powder for the cylinder was 926.3 fps (925 in real life) on my chronograph and the average for the GOEX powder was 879.9 fps (880 in real life). I did not shoot at a target today but only shot for the chronograph. I hope this data is helpful; it does however only represent six shots of each load.

[rodwha]

Surprising data!

[ofitg]

Today I shot a cylinder-full each of Swiss 3F and GOEX 3F in my Colt's 1851 Navy. I used .375 balls with a Wonder Wad split in half thickness and a dab of 85/15 Crisco/beeswax UNDER each ball. I did not try 20 grains of powder as per the request but I did use 22 grains of each type of powder (my usual load, so I used it instead of 20 grains). The average velocity I got with the Swiss powder for the cylinder was 926.3 fps (925 in real life) on my chronograph and the average for the GOEX powder was 879.9 fps (880 in real life). I did not shoot at a target today but only shot for the chronograph. I hope this data is helpful; it does however only represent six shots of each load.

Thanks, that is excellent data.

[Surculus]

The average velocity I got with the Swiss powder for the cylinder was 926.3 fps (925 in real life) on my chronograph and the average for the GOEX powder was 879.9 fps (880 in real life). I did not shoot at a target today but only shot for the chronograph. I hope this data is helpful; it does however only represent six shots of each load.

That's a 5% difference [45fps delta, ~900fps avg V: I love it when the math can be done in your head! ]; quite a far cry from the "30-35% faster" quoted at the start of this thread!