Swiss or Olde Eynsford users?

[ofitg]

Can any of you Swiss or OE users tell me what muzzle velocities you get with 20 grains of powder and round balls from a .36 revolver? Thanks in advance

[rodwha]

I have not seen any chronographed results for a .36 cal revolver. What I have seen from .44 cals is an increase of 35-37% compared to Schuetzen which is similar enough to Goex.

[RogerDat]

I have not seen any chronographed results for a .36 cal revolver. What I have seen from .44 cals is an increase of 35-37% compared to Schuetzen which is similar enough to Goex.

Really? That much is pretty impressive. Wish there was a place I could get a pound or so without the heavy hazmat fee to try in a 44 C&B

[rodwha]

Really? That much is pretty impressive. Wish there was a place I could get a pound or so without the heavy hazmat fee to try in a 44 C&B

Indeed. Swiss and Olde E give slightly higher velocities than T7 according to the few results posted. According to Hogdgon there was a 15% reduction needed (rifles only?) to replicate the velocity of BP, but that was before Swiss was well known here and Olde E was made. In a ROA we see that even a 15% reduced charge blows the doors off of standard Goex:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_dwo2nThA

Cross posting forum links is typically frowned upon so I’ll ask if a fellow who tested several powders through his gun if it’s ok to take a screen shot and post it here.

[rodwha]

Oh, and I dug through my 2nd edition Lyman’s handbook and found the velocity for an20 grn charge of 3F Goex with a ball. 750 fps. If the ~36% increase holds true that would give a velocity close to 1020 fps.

[John Boy]

Can any of you Swiss or OE users tell me what muzzle velocities you get with 20 grains of powder and round balls from a .36 revolver?

With a 70gr ball in a 36 caliber revolver using 20gr of FFFg, the muzzle velocity is 685 fps
* 15gr = 640 fps
* 22gr = 710 fps

[rodwha]

With a 70gr ball in a 36 caliber revolver using 20gr of FFFg, the muzzle velocity is 685 fps
* 15gr = 640 fps
* 22gr = 710 fps

What brand of powder were you using?

[rodwha]

I was given the OK to share his info here. These are the screenshots that give the info:

[ofitg]

Thanks, Rodwha, those are interesting numbers.

[swathdiver]

Can any of you Swiss or OE users tell me what muzzle velocities you get with 20 grains of powder and round balls from a .36 revolver? Thanks in advance

I know they go supersonic but have yet to chronograph. Trying to find a place that will let us city folk do a water jug penetration test.

[indian joe]

I have not seen any chronographed results for a .36 cal revolver. What I have seen from .44 cals is an increase of 35-37% compared to Schuetzen which is similar enough to Goex.

Rodwha
Has Goex slipped that much over the years that it only equals schutzen ??? (Wano)
We have Wano - Old Goex - Swiss
Chrono puts the goex about plumb in the middle - but the Goex is 1990's vintage - before the Moosic plant blew up
(Goex 5FA vs Wano PPP in my 44/40 rifle I get 1180FPS vs 1030FPS - 36 grains WEIGHT of each under a 225 grain lead)

[rodwha]

Rodwha
Has Goex slipped that much over the years that it only equals schutzen ??? (Wano)
We have Wano - Old Goex - Swiss
Chrono puts the goex about plumb in the middle - but the Goex is 1990's vintage - before the Moosic plant blew up
(Goex 5FA vs Wano PPP in my 44/40 rifle I get 1180FPS vs 1030FPS - 36 grains WEIGHT of each under a 225 grain lead)

It would seem so. I’ve yet to see anything that showed otherwise. Here’s a little bit more chronographed results:

http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

You can see some of the .36 cal results using Pyrodex went supersonic. Granted the numbers seem a bit off as my understanding is that only about 30 grns fits under a ball in a Navy, but then Pyrodex compresses more than BP and powder measures throw various volumes (my rifle measure set at 30 grns drops a weighed 33 grns of 3F Olde E).

When I first got my ROA I looked at it and thought how it was just about the same size as a .45 Colt and began asking questions about using it for hunting. The replies of nearly everyone, especially on traditional forums, was that fully loaded it performed on par with a .38 Spl and wasn’t humane. And the chronographed results anything but Swiss, Olde E, or T7 do indeed show this to be true. Using those powders one can surpass the modern standard .45 Colt performance (~400-450 ft/lbs) when using a bullet.

[Boz330]

It would seem so. I’ve yet to see anything that showed otherwise. Here’s a little bit more chronographed results:

http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

You can see some of the .36 cal results using Pyrodex went supersonic. Granted the numbers seem a bit off as my understanding is that only about 30 grns fits under a ball in a Navy, but then Pyrodex compresses more than BP and powder measures throw various volumes (my rifle measure set at 30 grns drops a weighed 33 grns of 3F Olde E).

When I first got my ROA I looked at it and thought how it was just about the same size as a .45 Colt and began asking questions about using it for hunting. The replies of nearly everyone, especially on traditional forums, was that fully loaded it performed on par with a .38 Spl and wasn’t humane. And the chronographed results anything but Swiss, Olde E, or T7 do indeed show this to be true. Using those powders one can surpass the modern standard .45 Colt performance (~400-450 ft/lbs) when using a bullet.

The way I understand it the powder measures are set up for 2F powder so 33gr would be about right for the denser powders like Swiss and OE. Personally I have never fooled with T-7. Back when I was guiding elk hunters in NM, I had a hunter take an elk with a Knight .52 with a Barnes 375gr 45cal bullet in a Sabot and T-7. The bullet went through the elk and left a fist sized exit wound. He claimed the load was making over 2000fps which sounded high as hell to me but the results were sure impressive and the elk made it about 10 yrds before going down.

Bob

[rodwha]

Being a rifle measure it no doubt is designed with 2F in mind, but all powders weigh differently as I showed above with the screenshots. From that we see that 30 grns measured weighed 23.8 grns with Olde E but weighed 28.2 grns with Schuetzen (Grafs). With the weight difference my 30 grn measure using Grafs would likely weigh 39 grns. So it certainly depends on which powder you are measuring, and Swiss and Olde E don’t seem nearly as common as other powders.

I began with Pyrodex as my father gave me several pounds. However from what little chronographed results I found early on showed it was just a little bit faster than standard Goex, and I hated the fouling it left on my revolvers (some results show it comparable to Swiss). T7 was the only powder I could find locally that would give me sufficient power from my revolvers so it’s what I bought. But once gun accessories became hard to find it forced me online and I found Olde E (and Swiss) and decided to try the real deal that was also cheaper. It seems to perform equally well, though people say T7 is finicky. Can’t say I’ve noticed that and I seat my projectiles quite firmly. I still buy a little T7 but I mostly buy Olde E.

Oh, I forgot to mention that with as old as my measure is it’s more likely to be regulated for standard Goex as Swiss wasn’t really a thing here yet, and Olde E was decades to come.

[indian joe]

Being a rifle measure it no doubt is designed with 2F in mind, but all powders weigh differently as I showed above with the screenshots. From that we see that 30 grns measured weighed 23.8 grns with Olde E but weighed 28.2 grns with Schuetzen (Grafs). With the weight difference my 30 grn measure using Grafs would likely weigh 39 grns. So it certainly depends on which powder you are measuring, and Swiss and Olde E don’t seem nearly as common as other powders.

I began with Pyrodex as my father gave me several pounds. However from what little chronographed results I found early on showed it was just a little bit faster than standard Goex, and I hated the fouling it left on my revolvers (some results show it comparable to Swiss). T7 was the only powder I could find locally that would give me sufficient power from my revolvers so it’s what I bought. But once gun accessories became hard to find it forced me online and I found Olde E (and Swiss) and decided to try the real deal that was also cheaper. It seems to perform equally well, though people say T7 is finicky. Can’t say I’ve noticed that and I seat my projectiles quite firmly. I still buy a little T7 but I mostly buy Olde E.

Oh, I forgot to mention that with as old as my measure is it’s more likely to be regulated for standard Goex as Swiss wasn’t really a thing here yet, and Olde E was decades to come.

AHHH - all of my comparisons are done with weighed charges - grains weight on a quality balance scale - (because of what you say above - there is almost always some difference in bulk density between brands) - I figure we buy it by the pound we test it by weight - so - 60 grains of Wano - 60 grains of Swiss - its weighed charges to get a comparison. Volume is fine for charging a gun but its not a fair comparison across brands.

[GoexBlackhorn]

Some of us don't judge a powder brand by bullet speed. Accuracy, availability nearby, % of mess inside the bore and price matters too in the decision.

[rodwha]

Some of us don't judge a powder brand by bullet speed. Accuracy, availability nearby, % of mess inside the bore and price matters too in the decision.

It wouldn’t be quite the issue were it not for the small powder capacities revolvers deal with. For hunting applications it’s the difference between plenty humans and not quite humane. And I don’t care for the idea of carrying more than powder flask.

The accuracy and consistency seem to be fine, though I’ve never shot any other BP to compare it to. Online availability is just that as I can’t seem to find any BP near me now, much less what I want, and it’s been shown the fouling of these powders is less. Taking into consideration that these powders require less to achieve more its seems like a win all the way around to me, and that effects the price as well which I showed gave more revolver shots per pound at a cheaper price.

[rodwha]

AHHH - all of my comparisons are done with weighed charges - grains weight on a quality balance scale - (because of what you say above - there is almost always some difference in bulk density between brands) - I figure we buy it by the pound we test it by weight - so - 60 grains of Wano - 60 grains of Swiss - its weighed charges to get a comparison. Volume is fine for charging a gun but its not a fair comparison across brands.

I’m not familiar with the weight of Wano but I have seen that it gives similar enough velocities as the other standard powders. If the weight is similar as well than the same weight of Swiss would be that much greater as far as performance. Fouling might be closer as there’d be that much more powder in the charge.

[rodwha]

So I went back and got the cost of Grafs powder (rebranded Schuetzen) since it’s the one with the weight and velocity shown that I used in place of standard Goex, which isn’t exactly accurate as we don’t have a listed weight for it, and Graf’s powder is cheaper than standard Goex.

At $15.99/lb the cost per shot is a mere $0.064 per 30 grn volume of powder and is certainly cheaper than the others if bought from Grafs.

[rfd]

if i was into cap guns, most any brand of powder would do me fine. but i only use flintlocks and that's where a better powder (swiss!) is really best, particularly since i use one horn of 3f for both tube and pan.