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Thread: Remington Chapter 11, Oops

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Remington Chapter 11, Oops

    I think the Obama years scaring the gun market into a frenzy helped put off the inevitable for Remington. Now that the market has settled down, Remington doesnít have anything in their catalog that makes me tempted to buy. Seems like others are voting with their wallets for the same verdict.

    I donít wish Remington any ill will, Iím just not seeing anything from them that makes me want to turn loose of my money. I wish they had some nice pieces on the market.

    I passed up their RM380 for a Kimber Micro 380. I donít have any craving for an R51. I was given an R1. I bought a used Para Black Ops that is a much better 1911 (funny that Remington bought Para). Iíve laid out money for some new Rugers and Smiths and Iím saving money while drooling after a few more. Just donít see anything I want from Remington. Kind of sad really.
    "Time and money don't do you a bit of good until you spend them." - My Dad

  2. #2
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    They could do fine if they just focus on their core products: shotguns, centerfire rifles, ammo. The handgun and AR line should be dead and buried except for the 1911's. Sell Marlin to someone who is going to really put effort and resources into them and not just languish as a sideshow. Sadly, I fear Ruger will also someday feel the pinch of excess overhead and a product line expanded well beyond sustainable sales.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Remington gambled that Hillary would win and the panic would continue. Remington expanded, A LOT. They took on a huge amount of debt, built new plants and acquired other companies.
    Hillary didn't win, the firearms market softened considerably and Remington was faced with lots of debt and low sales; the worst possible combination.
    In addition, Remington has been fighting lawsuits over the Model 700 trigger problems, had a bad false start with the R51 and has been losing market share for decades.

    Remington made some bad decisions and decisions have consequences. I don't foresee Remington completely failing. They'll restructure that debt and some lenders will lose money. The debt that isn't written off will be restructured and paid back over a longer period of time. Remington will reduce their costs, maybe lay off some workers, maybe sell off some companies (if they can find buyers in this soft market) and they'll try to save what they can.

  4. #4
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    I did see a sign in my favorite gun shop in Kalamazoo proclaiming Barak Obama salesman of the year with a picture and a commendation. It is an ill wind indeed that blows no one good.
    Quis Quis Quis, Quis Liberat Canes

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    Millions and millions of American shooters and sportsmen got up, went to work, contributed to society in useful and meaningful ways all over the nation and shot no one today! How do they controll themselves?? Experts Baffled....

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    In the 1980s Savage saved themselves by dropping every model except the 110. They came back, didn't they?

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  6. #6
    Boolit Master eljefe's Avatar
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    Most manufacturers are feeling the pinch of President Trump being elected.
    I am a dealer and have been selling guns for a little over 10 years. Obama
    and the gun grabber industry made for brisk trade. That was exacerbated in
    my state (Maryland) by a gun hating governor. I think that nearly everyone
    thought Hillary was going to win. The manufacturers and dealers geared up for
    her election and were left holding a lot of excess inventory. Obviously, not every
    manufacturer was effected as greatly as Remington. I hope they can recover.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master lefty o's Avatar
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    remingturd was headed this way before obamma came along. it has just taken time for it to come to this. they will file and they will continue on, and the mgmnt that ran it in the ground will probably all get bonuses.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Seems to be matter of too many stomachs to fill at the top of the food chain and with many investor owned companies not committed to the brand and only too short term return on investment the inevitable happens. Sad really I wanted one of the 410 1100 shotguns but I am hesitant to go forward with that buy.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master dkf's Avatar
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    They likely would not be in this position if they would not have been putting out so many junk quality guns for years already. There are plenty of other options around the same price point that are much better quality.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Boolit_Head's Avatar
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    They killed off the Para Ordinance brand and left the owners sucking wind. I'm sure that did not leave a good taste in their mouths.
    On every question of construction let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.

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  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    It's not new. Just a legal way to keep from paying your debts.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Their problems are similar to what Colt's went through. They had holding/capital companies raiding their revenues and profits so the fat cats could get fatter, while the manufacturer was bled dry. That practice and the issues of not being nimble and responsive in the market got them into bankruptcy. I'm afraid that both places are simply rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic...
    Colt's Manufacturing Company Armorer Instructor
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  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I'd buy Marlin but can't get the cash together
    oh well sai la vie
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgw45 View Post
    It's not new. Just a legal way to keep from paying your debts.
    It's also a legal way to get out from underneath having to honor warranties and recalls. Read M700 triggers.

  15. #15
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    the 700 trigger wasn't a design defect, a manufacturing defect. and many of the deaths that resulted from it, are more correctly called "killing someone and getting away with it"

  16. #16
    Boolit Master RogerDat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    Their problems are similar to what Colt's went through. They had holding/capital companies raiding their revenues and profits so the fat cats could get fatter, while the manufacturer was bled dry. That practice and the issues of not being nimble and responsive in the market got them into bankruptcy. I'm afraid that both places are simply rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic...
    A whole lot of that going on in business. Buy with debt financing, re-finance at lower rate once company is purchased using company assets as collateral. Bleed profits as "return" to investors. Then break up and sell the assets for a quick buck or bankruptcy and the debt holders get a haircut. Including that debt you refinanced to pay off buying the company in the first place.

    For an individual it would be sort of like buying a new car with the auto company giving you 0% financing so the purchase is with their money. Then you strip and part the car out, letting them repossess the stripped carcass after you can no longer make profit off of the parts so you stop making payments on the debt.

    They did get caught leaning the wrong way BUT modernizing plant and equipment should lead to greater efficiency and thus lower manufacturing cost else what is the point? Nimble and responsive is good, but only worth the effort as a long term investment intent on building up the company and the brand.
    Je suis Charlie
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  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radialshave View Post
    the 700 trigger wasn't a design defect, a manufacturing defect. and many of the deaths that resulted from it, are more correctly called "killing someone and getting away with it"
    I had my gunsmith check my 700 and he said they used the wrong lube that made it gum up and made the trigger stick. He clean it up and lube it with what he use and now there is no problem with it.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by trapper9260 View Post
    I had my gunsmith check my 700 and he said they used the wrong lube that made it gum up and made the trigger stick. He clean it up and lube it with what he use and now there is no problem with it.
    when Remington sent me the big email to see if I wanted money or a new gun, they said it was due to "excessive" glue used in the assembly that made the safety mechanism dangerous to use.
    Many articles I saw pointed to excessive glue as being culprit. But yet I never saw one article that said that all "accidents" would not have happened if CARELESS GUN HANDLING was NOT used as well.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    They aren't going away. They're just shedding debt and screwing lenders.

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