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Thread: 357 Magnum powder

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    357 Magnum powder

    I am looking for a powder with slightly more bulk than Unique or Universal for easier load level observation when loading my 357 magnum. 125-135-148-158gr. Lead or J word boolits, 4" barrel. I would like a muzzle velocity of 900-1100 fps, because from long experience, those boolit/velocity parameters are sufficient for any reasonable purpose, and I would rather not shoot full snort loads. Trail Boss and 2400 need not apply!
    Any suggestions will be gratefully received
    Thanx!

  2. #2
    Boolit Bub
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    Herco , Solo 1250 or Acc # 5 . 4227 if you're gonna stay around 1100 to 1200 .

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    Blue Dot should do the trick.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    be-86. although have had lots of luck with BD under 158's as well. BD never liked the lighter bullets for me though.

    mised the part about more bulk. not sure how be86 stacks up there.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    herco

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maven View Post
    Blue Dot should do the trick.
    +1 ^^^^^^^
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy marshall623's Avatar
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    +2 Blue Dot , HS-6 will work also .

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Jesus said ( Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest ) Matt. 11:28

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Ed_Shot's Avatar
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    Have had good luck with Blue Dot in .357 but for me it's hard to beat Red Dot/Promo 5.0 gr. under a 120 ~ 160 gr boolit in a .357 case.......it meets your velocity window, pleasant to shoot, and it's super accurate.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    SAFETY NOTICE
    At Alliant Powder, we take safety seriously. That’s why we periodically test our products in different situations to be sure our use recommendations stay current. Check here for any safety notes or recall information. Stay safe and keep accurate.

    Alliant Powder periodically reviews and tests their published reloading data to verify that our recommended recipes have not changed over time.

    During the latest review Alliant Powder discovered that Alliant Powder's Blue Dot® should not be used in the following applications:

    Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue Dot® recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).
    Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).
    Use of Blue Dot® in the above cases may cause a high pressure situation that could cause property damage and serious personal injury.

    We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause and appreciate your understanding and cooperation in this matter.

    just a heads up for your 125gr bullets
    kids that hunt and fish dont mug old ladies

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    JBinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUCKYDAWG13 View Post
    SAFETY NOTICE
    At Alliant Powder, we take safety seriously. That’s why we periodically test our products in different situations to be sure our use recommendations stay current. Check here for any safety notes or recall information. Stay safe and keep accurate.

    Alliant Powder periodically reviews and tests their published reloading data to verify that our recommended recipes have not changed over time.

    During the latest review Alliant Powder discovered that Alliant Powder's Blue Dot® should not be used in the following applications:

    Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue Dot® recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).
    Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).
    Use of Blue Dot® in the above cases may cause a high pressure situation that could cause property damage and serious personal injury.

    We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause and appreciate your understanding and cooperation in this matter.

    just a heads up for your 125gr bullets
    Thanks for posting that warning. I am not a B.Dot user in that caliber, but if ya look at the posts before yours, there are more than one advocate for using it & not mentioning the 125gr+/- warning...

    Once again.. the "warning" holds true... Don't trust the internet for loads unless you are using the right "sources" for the data.

    Unless, of course , you want to find out the hard way... Not everything is the same as the old days..


    ETA: P.S. - Be a good idea to put that in your load manuals in Red ink as well, so it is not forgotten...
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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  11. #11
    I'm A Honcho! bluejay75's Avatar
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    HS6 for the purpose you state. From a rifle with 158 jacketed...300MP is the fastest and most accurate powder I have ever tried. Both can be thrown accurately as well from most powder measures.
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Hick's Avatar
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    I've had good success with 700x, even though it can be hard to measure in smaller quantities. I also use titegroup a lot in 357 Magnum, but it doesn't have the bulk you seem to want.
    Hick: Iron sights!

  13. #13
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    I discussed the Alliant "warning" with them some years back when it came out. They stated the warning was issued based not on their testing but "reports" of "pressure spiking". I asked how the powder could be "acceptable" with heavier bullets in the 357 magnum, all bullet weights in the 44 Magnum yet BD was not acceptable with any bullets in the 41 magnum.......they fell back and said again they had "reports" of "pressure spiking".

    I had been a longtime user of BD in all those cartridges including the 357 Magnum with 125 gr bullets. Following the load data listed in one prominent manual I worked up to the maximum load listed of BD under Hornady 125 HP. At the time I wondered why that manual listed a load 2 gr higher than Lyman's but it was in a manual and I had blind faith back then. That load gave 1690 fps out of my 6" Ruger revolver with no pressure signs and excellent accuracy. Terminal effect on jack rabbits and coyotes was awesome. I shot several hundred of them with no ill effect to the Ruger and no hint of pressure problems.

    Ten years ago I got the Oehler M43 PBL and shortly thereafter put a strain gauge on my 357 Contender barrel. That load ran a tudge over 1900 fps out of the 10" TC barrel but then the Winchester factory 125 HPs were less than 100 fps slower. When I pressure tested that load I discovered the high velocity was because of pressure.....lots of it and with no sign of "spiking". That load was running at 42,200 psi! The Winchester factory 125s were pushing 28,200 psi.........I suspect that is where the "pressure spiking" came from. When loaded to the max BD load listed in the Lyman manual the psi came back down to normal 357 pressures and velocities.

    Never could get a precise definition of what "spiking" meant in this case. By my definition and by other ballisticians I've talked with "spiking" refers to an abnormal rise or drop in pressure above/below the median time/pressure curve (trace). This also can be detected by an anomaly in velocity measurement during a test string of at least 10 shots. I've pressure tested numerous BD loads in the 357 and 44 magnums and never had any hint of "spiking".....excessive pressure above the SAAMI MAPs yes, but "spiking"....no.

    I also found some reports of "spiking" being made on the internet by a couple individuals who were using another pressure measuring system that didn't have the "bugs" worked out. They also weren't using it correctly. Based on my own pressure testing I continue to use BD under 125 gr jacketed bullets in the 357 magnum (2400 actually works better at just under SAAMI MAPs). I also use it under 210 gr jacketed and cast bullets in the 41 Magnum and under 240 - 260 gr cast in the 44 magnum. I have observed no anomalies with loads less than of meeting SAAMI MAPs. Some time back I posted a test comparing Hercules BD to Alliant BD in the 44 magnum under the "Keith" cast bullet on this forum. It may be a sticky?

    It appeared to me the "warning" is a "CYA" because of the overload listed in the manual. Most companies are loathe to overtly criticize another company and prefer to just fall back to a "safe" position to avoid any potential litigation. If BD did produce anomalies in pressure it seems only logical it would have been pulled from the market. I continue to use BD and recommend it for such as the OP wants in this thread. Others are free to do as they wish of course. I've no problems with that and if they've BD they no longer care to use I do accept donations.........
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 02-13-2018 at 07:01 AM.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  14. #14
    Boolit Master



    gray wolf's Avatar
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    HS6 is a great powder, so is long shot,
    but it is a very fine flattened ball powder.
    So it is not a dense powder, it's a very fine small particle size.
    Hate is like drinking poison and hoping the other man dies.

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    I discussed the Alliant "warning" with them some years back when it came out. They stated the warning was issued based not on their testing but "reports" of "pressure spiking". I asked how the powder could be "acceptable" with heavier bullets in the 357 magnum, all bullet weights in the 44 Magnum yet BD was not acceptable with any bullets in the 41 magnum.......they fell back and said again they had "reports" of "pressure spiking".

    I had been a longtime user of BD in all those cartridges including the 357 Magnum with 125 gr bullets. Following the load data listed in one prominent manual I worked up to the maximum load listed of BD under Hornady 125 HP. At the time I wondered why that manual listed a load 2 gr higher than Lyman's but it was in a manual and I had blind faith back then. That load gave 1690 fps out of my 6" Ruger revolver with no pressure signs and excellent accuracy. Terminal effect on jack rabbits and coyotes was awesome. I shot several hundred of them with no ill effect to the Ruger and no hint of pressure problems.

    Ten years ago I got the Oehler M43 PBL and shortly thereafter put a strain gauge on my 357 Contender barrel. That load ran a tudge over 1900 fps out of the 10" TC barrel but then the Winchester factory 125 HPs were less than 100 fps slower. When I pressure tested that load I discovered the high velocity was because of pressure.....lots of it and with no sign of "spiking". That load was running at 42,200 psi! The Winchester factory 125s were pushing 28,200 psi.........I suspect that is where the "pressure spiking" came from. When loaded to the max BD load listed in the Lyman manual the psi came back down to normal 357 pressures and velocities.

    Never could get a precise definition of what "spiking" meant in this case. By my definition and by other ballisticians I've talked with "spiking" refers to an abnormal rise or drop in pressure above/below the median time/pressure curve (trace). This also can be detected by an anomaly in velocity measurement during a test string of at least 10 shots. I've pressure tested numerous BD loads in the 357 and 44 magnums and never had any hint of "spiking".....excessive pressure above the SAAMI MAPs yes, but "spiking"....no.

    I also found some reports of "spiking" being made on the internet by a couple individuals who were using another pressure measuring system that didn't have the "bugs" worked out. They also weren't using it correctly. Based on my own pressure testing I continue to use BD under 125 gr jacketed bullets in the 357 magnum (2400 actually works better at just under SAAMI MAPs). I also use it under 210 gr jacketed and cast bullets in the 41 Magnum and under 240 - 260 gr cast in the 44 magnum. I have observed no anomalies with loads less than of meeting SAAMI MAPs. Some time back I posted a test comparing Hercules BD to Alliant BD in the 44 magnum under the "Keith" cast bullet on this forum. It may be a sticky?

    It appeared to me the "warning" is a "CYA" because of the overload listed in the manual. Most companies are loathe to overtly criticize another company and prefer to just fall back to a "safe" position to avoid any potential litigation. If BD did produce anomalies in pressure it seems only logical it would have been pulled from the market. I continue to use BD and recommend it for such as the OP wants in this thread. Others are free to do as they wish of course. I've no problems with that and if they've BD they no longer care to use I do accept donations.........

    Thanks for all that info, Larry. This is something I've been wondering about for years. Back in the 90s I had found that 14 grains of Blue Dot worked very well in my Model 57 shooting 410610s, then eventually ran out of Blue Dot and began using 2400. At some point in time I learned of Alliant's warning and was always puzzled by it. What in hell does the powder know about the bullet diameter, and why would a .429" bullet be okay but a .410" bullet NOT be okay? I've long since moved to other powders, but I never stopped wondering WTH. I figured it had to be some kind of BS.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    VV N110... Versitile in .357 and several other calibers
    Alcohol Inventory Reduction Specialist (Journeyman Level)

  17. #17
    Boolit Man
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    I use Vectan A0 in place of all my Unique loads and I load mine to achieve the velocity ranges you mentioned. Comparable to Herco according to the manufacturer. Inexpensive and fluffy.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy

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    I would try Power Pistol. I was using Blue Dot in 10mm for the higher velocity loads but Power Pistol performs better with better accuracy. The other advantage Power Pistol has is greater bulk. It takes less weight for the same volume compared to Blue Dot, 2400, H110, etc.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master
    dragon813gt's Avatar
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    357 Magnum powder

    Here is a bulk density chart. Fair warning, I don't have time to confirm the numbers are correct.
    http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/powder.pdf

    You can also use Lee's VMD chart and convert to get the density.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon813gt View Post
    Here is a bulk density chart. Fair warning, I don't have time to confirm the numbers are correct.
    http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/powder.pdf

    You can also use Lee's VMD chart and convert to get the density.
    that's a very handy chart. I've added it to my archive. thanks for sharing.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check