Volume difference between Blackhorn 209 and Black Powder?

[Onebigelf]

Do any of you gentlemen know if there is a difference in charge weight when using Blackhorn 209 compared to regular black powder? If so, do you know what the conversion is?

Accurate just sent me their load date, which would be fine except that I'm loading a cartridge not on their list.

I'm loading an old Webley revolver. The original Webley mark 1 cartridge was a black powder round utilizing a case of almost exactly the same volume as the 45 ACP / 45 Auto Rim that my revolver has been converted to use. The cartridge was loaded with 18gr of black powder under a 265gr HBRN bullet, generating 750fps and about 11,500psi. Modern smokeless charges don't achieve this. Currently I'm loading 255gr cast bullets over 4.4gr of Unique at about 600-650fps.

The early MK1 through MK3 or MK4 guns were black powder. Many of them were proofed to the higher pressure of the cordite round when the Brits changed over, but BP pressures are supposed to be less, and thus should be safer in these guns.

I'd like to load something closer to the old black powder rounds in performance, without all the smoke. Blackhorn 209. The first information I read suggested that BH209 was designed as a volume for volume substitute. Later reading suggests that it's more energetic and that loads should be reduced- but I've still got to fill the case, right? So I need to figure out what the equivalent charge to 18gr is, then see how much that fills the case and see if I can seat deep enough to eliminate free space.

So step 1, what is the equivalent charge?

Thanks,
John

[toot]

i would just stay with black. that is what i use in mine. why go with a substitute? the smoke is part of the ambiance of shooting these old timers. jmho.

[Onebigelf]

Because the local range doesn't allow black powder, but I've talked to them and Blackhorn smokes enough less that they allow it.

John

[greenjoytj]

Get a BP volume measure tool and pour 18 grs by volume of Blackhorn 209, then weigh the poured by volume amount with a digital scale. Do this 10 to 20 times and calculate the average weight of an 18 gr charge that was poured by volume.

[Edward]

Do any of you gentlemen know if there is a difference in charge weight when using Blackhorn 209 compared to regular black powder? If so, do you know what the conversion is?

Accurate just sent me their load date, which would be fine except that I'm loading a cartridge not on their list.

I'm loading an old Webley revolver. The original Webley mark 1 cartridge was a black powder round utilizing a case of almost exactly the same volume as the 45 ACP / 45 Auto Rim that my revolver has been converted to use. The cartridge was loaded with 18gr of black powder under a 265gr HBRN bullet, generating 750fps and about 11,500psi. Modern smokeless charges don't achieve this. Currently I'm loading 255gr cast bullets over 4.4gr of Unique at about 600-650fps.

The early MK1 through MK3 or MK4 guns were black powder. Many of them were proofed to the higher pressure of the cordite round when the Brits changed over, but BP pressures are supposed to be less, and thus should be safer in these guns.

I'd like to load something closer to the old black powder rounds in performance, without all the smoke. Blackhorn 209. The first information I read suggested that BH209 was designed as a volume for volume substitute. Later reading suggests that it's more energetic and that loads should be reduced- but I've still got to fill the case, right? So I need to figure out what the equivalent charge to 18gr is, then see how much that fills the case and see if I can seat deep enough to eliminate free space.

So step 1, what is the equivalent charge?

Thanks,
John

I don"t need to fill case with BH209 like I do with real black powder , as I understand it it is a hybrid powder . Just pick up the phone /call them at BH209 and you will know every thing they know (I did) Ed

[omgb]

Use a volume measure to determine the correct amount of BP. Then fill that measure with an equal volume of BH209. Now weight the BH209 and you have your weight. Don't worry about the pressure, BH209 is more energetic but it will not generate high enough pressure to be a concern. I use it in the 32-20 and the 45-70 and 38-55 and my custom .72 Tallywhacker, a .72 caliber slug loaded into brass 12 gauge hulls and fired through an H&R rifled single shot. It works very well. Use standard primers and regular bullet lube. SPG works so I use it. I also use LBT Blue depending on which sizer I'm using.

[omgb]

FWIW, I understand the logic behind BH209 over true BP. I made the switch in many of my guns a couple of years ago and haven't looked back. The makes of BH209 offer this conversion from volume to grains----.7 So, if your powder measure for BP was set at 10 grains you would multiply 10 by .7 to arrive at your charge weight in grains (7 grains by weight) So, your 18 grain BP load by volume would be 12.6 grains by weight of BH209. BH209 loads can be compressed without worry so a tab more should not be a problem. Remember, this stuff cleans with Hoppe's not water. Let me know if I can be of more help. This conversion is Volume to weight. If your charge is a weighed 18 grain charge of BP then the conversion is meaningless.
Reece