.308 High Velocity at 500 yards.

[Larry Gibson]

Waco

Not sure where you're getting the idea that I'm "calling you out"? I've said a couple times in this thread that you're doing well. I was called out by gearnasher for that. You are doing well. I'm trying to help you do better. I was where you're at not too long ago but I learned to do better. I've no doubt you can do better. At least you are shooting at 500 yards unlike some others. I am trying to help you do better. I also am trying to do better myself.

If anyone has any doubt on my testing or my results they are free to come here and we'll go shooting. Several forum members have. They have shot my HV loads out to 300 yards with excellent success. I'd be more than happy to shoot with you. Maybe I'll get into your neck of the woods. I do travel through eastern Oregon often. Perhaps a meet in Nevada? That invitation to shoot and even see how I reload and cast has been extended for some years now to anyone, particularly those who disagree with me.

I also have no idea how you perceive I am using your video to prove my results. Your video speaks for itself and my on target results speak for themselves. I don't "NEED" to prove anything for myself. I have been proving it for years in test after test many requested by those who disagree. Now I "NEED" to video? I don't think so because if anyone wants to question my veracity they are welcome to come here and see for themselves.

As to future results with my 10" twist at high velocity unless you and I get together or someone wants to come see for themselves I probably won't be shooting HV cast in it. I hadn't shot any HV in that rifle since I did the test posted on the NOE forum until you asked for results at 500 yards here. I did the test for you and posted the results. My HV 30 caliber shooting with cast bullets is mainly with the .308W 14" twist Palma rifle with 2600 fps 30 XCBs or the 30x60 XCB rifle with a 16" twist at 2900 fps with the 30 XCB bullets. In the last 2 years I have put over 2800 rounds of high velocity cast bullets (mostly NOE 30 XCBs) through the 16" twist rifle. By controlling the RPM I am truly shooting HV at 2900 fps with consistent excellent accuracy. That beats the heck out of the frustrations of trying to get a 10" twist to shoot that way at more than 2267 fps. It's a heck of a lot more satisfying to bust clay birds at longer ranges at HV.

Yes I know you have that 10" twist rifle and want to make it shoot better at 500 yards. I think it will to and am just trying to help you do that because I have.

But, again, if you want to get together I'll gladly load some up again for the 10" twist .308W rifle or even the 12" twist .308W rifle. Otherwise I don't think Ill do anymore with the 10" unless you or someone else wants to see it done. I've tested it enough and know it's limitations. Be glad to help.

[Shopdog]

Waco,have you tried shooting a box test with this scope?There's been some serious work and discussion on the Accurate shooting forum on scope testing.Getting past folks wedged panties,it's my opinion that we're leaving some good accuracy on the table by not fully understanding the precision side of optics.I've straightened and adjusted enough "bad" scopes to say that,given the right equipment and an eye/ear/feel for precision,that it's pretty apparent sloppiness,inside a typical scope could benefit from a little tune up?

Also,slap a yardstick up on target (use a plumb line) and run the scope through it's elevation clicks.You should experience some stiction at the extremes.Good luck,BW'b.

[Larry Gibson]

Pretty sure Larry said I need to go slower.

With those components that is what I'm saying. With those components you are doing very well at HV. I am also saying you could probably get better accuracy at the velocity level you're at with a few improvements. They seem like minor things but they made the difference in my own HV cast bullet shooting. By using them I was able, with the 10 and 12" twist .308W rifles, to achieve better accuracy at top end velocities.

Those small subtle changes were to use an alloy closer to Lyman #2 (90/5/5) WQ'd quicker out of the mould or HT'd so the BHN is 21 - 23. Using an improved alloy and a better casting technique my weight sortment curve reached a plateau at the heavy end, not be a "bell curve". Those weight sorted bullets in the heavy end plateau proved much more accurate, especially at HV and longer ranges. A switch to the slower burning powder to increase the time pressure curve which was close to 100% load density and ignited and burned efficiently also makes a difference.

Just trying to help you.

[runfiverun]

umm slower would not get your bullets to 500 yds.
you could also just shoot at say 300 yds and say it was 500 yds, but that isn't the right thing to do either.

[popper]

Waco - I could send you some Sb/Cu alloy that goes to 2700 with 4895 to try casting some XCBs, They seem to not have the RPM thingy problem. Slowest powder I have is LEverE, haven't tried it in 308W.

[waco]

Popper. I just might take you up on the offer. Thanks.

[waco]

PM sent Popper.

[ShooterAZ]

Enough is enough guys, the back and forth bickering needs to stop. Please keep it civil and on topic!

[Larry Gibson]

ShooterAZ

You're not that far away, how's about we get together for a HV shoot?

Been thinking......

We've an excellent 300 yard range here. We can chronograph every shot (Oehler M35P). I can load up rounds for my 10, 12 and 14" twist .308Ws above and below the RPM Threshold.

10" twist; 1900 fps and 2400 fps
12" twist; 2300 fps and 2600 fps
14" twist 2600 fps and 2900 fps.
(Velocities approximate)

You (or I, or we can alternate?) can shoot 5 or 10 shot groups (your choice) with each different twist at 100, 200 and 300 yards. We can measure each group and compare for accuracy and linear group expansion as the range increases. Shouldn't take more than a day on the range (180 rounds if we shoot 10 shot groups), I'll buy lunch and dinner and have a guest room if you need to stay overnight. All you need to do is come on over and shoot my guns and my ammo.....what say you?

P.S.; same offer is extended to waco, runfiverun and geargnasher......just to be fair.

[runfiverun]

I usually come that way in the spring to fish lake Powell, Havasu ain't that much further and has more Bass.

[Larry Gibson]

C'mon down, fishing is supposed to be good this year. They did a sonar mapping of the lake and found there's more fish than they thought.

[tomme boy]

Gear, not sure what the speed was. When I sold the rifle everything I had including all reloading info went with it.

I do know it was varget. It is one of my favorite powders. And it reduces well just like 4895.

[waco]

I got some 30 XCB boolits sized and lubed today. I’ll test these with RX15 I think.

[35 shooter]

They look great Waco! Looking forward to the rl15 results.

[bullseye67]

Good evening,
Waco excellent video skills!! The vapour trails are really neat.
You are where I was with shooting HV 30 XCB boolits at 2200+ FPS. I had tried all the boolits I had. Lyman 311299, 311466, LEE 309 180, 150+170 FN and an RCBS 180FN and probably a couple more I can’t remember. In my Savage 30-06 I could push the 311299 to 2250 even 2300 with accuracy depending on powder. In my 308 I could get the same velocity but hand-full-of-wheat accuracy. Well fast forward a couple of years and I read about the 30 XCB boolits. Hmmmm....maybe I should try one. A year of trying and I had several good runs with several different powders at 2500 in the 30-06. Good accuracy several 10 shot groups at 100 yards of just over an inch...man I was thrilled. Switch to the 308 get up to 2500 and poof.... volleyball sized groups....***? Slow down to 2350-2375 and groups as good as the 30-06. So I just loaded them at 2200 FPS and dinging plates and knocking down bowling pins out to 200 yards easy peasy. That was where I stopped.
Fast forward to December 2017 and I am close to LHC. I get in touch with Larry and we get together. WOW is all I can say. Shooting and using rifles setup for HV was AMAZING!!! Larry was the perfect host. I was able to ask a lot of questions about alloys, casting techniques, reloading and prep. We went to SARA Park and setup on the 300 yard piggy. Larry laid a fresh coat of paint on the old girl and tossed a few clays on the berm behind the 300 yard line. We then setup a couple of 100 yard targets on our way back to the line. (First range I was at that you drive down to set targets. Some here have bicycles others guys bring Quads to set targets.) Back at the line Larry set “Dawn” on the bags, I dry fired a half dozen times and proceeded to shoot a 10 shot under 2 inch group on the piggy. As I became more comfortable with the rifle I started shooting clays and then the pieces of clays. I was like a kid in a candy store!! I then switched to 1903 Springfield and the Finn M39 at the 100 yard targets. All were really eye opening to me. With the M39 I was easily able to shoot Larry’s CBA load into 1 inch.
Today I am waiting patiently for the weather to improve so I can put all the knowledge I was able to get from Larry into practice. I have over 1K of 30XCB cast and lubed with 2500 all ready for warmer temperatures and way less snow. I have a custom action very similar to a “BAT” and barrel being made in 30-06 and 15 twist. I have been bit by the go fast bug....
If you have the chance to visit Larry and shoot some with him, you will be a changed person.
All I can say is “Larry...THANK YOU!!! and I plan to see you again in the fall.

[runfiverun]

the slow twist barrels make it easy.
nobody ever said they didn't.

if you want fast and got the money easy is just 2 phone calls away.
if you got a nice hunting rifle [like your grandpa's old model 70] and want it, put in the effort, it's still there.

just like above.
the 0-6 kept the pressures down and the 308 didn't [for the velocity] and groups blew up.
you'll have that with a powder change too.
think your way around the problem or buy your way around it [shrug]

[35 shooter]

With a little load work up I hit 2450 fps. In my Zastava .308 with IMR. 4350.
1.5" or less at 110 yds. Most groups under an inch with weighed boolits.
23.5" stock bbl.

Loads were made with a lee hand press using the 30xcb boolit, and Ben's Red or BLL lube.

[glockky]

Waco I can’t wait to see your reloader 15 groups. That’s probably my most used powder in 308 with J words.

[waco]

Waco I can’t wait to see your reloader 15 groups. That’s probably my most used powder in 308 with J words.

Stay tuned...........

[waco]

Larry. You are correct. Our velocities were almost identical with the xcb bullet in the 10 twist .308
Where did you have your rifle zeroed? Mine was zeroed at 100 yards.