Where are you at? Pt.2

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by Boaz
...... Do you know this fallen world is not your real home ? Do you know that he knew you before when he placed you in your mothers womb ? .............


I do believe that.
But, I am unsure how you are meaning those questions.
To me you are suggesting that we pre-existed before our maternal birth. That is, existed in the Spiritual realms before material birth.
Also that we have "fallen" from that Spiritual existence.
Given that, it makes sense that Jesus knew us.

It's actually a suggestion that reincarnation is real.
I happen to believe it is BTW.

Could you elaborate a little? Thanks.

[Ickisrulz]

Originally Posted by Boaz
...... Do you know this fallen world is not your real home ? Do you know that he knew you before when he placed you in your mothers womb ? .............


I do believe that.
But, I am unsure how you are meaning those questions.
To me you are suggesting that we pre-existed before our maternal birth. That is, existed in the Spiritual realms before material birth.
Also that we have "fallen" from that Spiritual existence.
Given that, it makes sense that Jesus knew us.

It's actually a suggestion that reincarnation is real.
I happen to believe it is BTW.

Could you elaborate a little? Thanks.

There is absolutely no idea or suggestion of reincarnation in the Bible. Man only dies once and then comes judgement.

God knew "all about us" before we were born. We did not have a relationship with God prior to our conception/birth.

[Rizzo]

There is absolutely no idea or suggestion of reincarnation in the Bible. Man only dies once and then comes judgement.

God knew "all about us" before we were born. We did not have a relationship with God prior to our conception/birth.

Absolutely no idea or suggestion of reincarnation in the Bible?
Here is a couple for you.
You reap what you sow.
If you live by the sword you die by the sword.
Sound familiar?

"Man only dies once and then comes judgement."

Well, that explains reincarnation doesn't it?
Man dies, his Spirit "lives" on and according to the Law of Cause and Effect (Karma) is "judged" and if required his Spirit reincarnates into another human form to work out things that need perfecting.
"Be ye perfect".

Also, wasn't John the Baptist the reincarnated Elijah as Jesus stated?

[Ickisrulz]

Absolutely no idea or suggestion of reincarnation in the Bible?
Here is a couple for you.
You reap what you sow.
If you live by the sword you die by the sword.
Sound familiar?

"Man only dies once and then comes judgement."

Well, that explains reincarnation doesn't it?
Man dies, his Spirit "lives" on and according to the Law of Cause and Effect (Karma) is "judged" and if required his Spirit reincarnates into another human form to work out things that need perfecting.
"Be ye perfect".

Also, wasn't John the Baptist the reincarnated Elijah as Jesus stated?

You are reading your own ideas into Scripture.

Reap what you sow--Gal 6:8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Live by the sword die by the sword--a life characterized with violence usually falls victim to violence. Inherent hazard of the lifestyle.

There are many references to the fate of the wicked in the Bible that clearly shows they do not get another chance through reincarnation. They are destroyed.

John the Baptist and Elijah were two different people, but they had similar roles. John came in the "spirit" of Elijah.

[Rizzo]

You are reading your own ideas into Scripture.

Reap what you sow--Gal 6:8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Live by the sword die by the sword--a life characterized with violence usually falls victim to violence. Inherent hazard of the lifestyle.

There are many references to the fate of the wicked in the Bible that clearly shows they do not get another chance through reincarnation. They are destroyed.

John the Baptist and Elijah were two different people, but they had similar roles. John came in the "spirit" of Elijah.

"You are reading your own ideas into Scripture."

Looks like you are doing that yourself with your replies.

Live by the sword, die by the sword means exactly that, not your generalized view of it.
For example, as sad and disturbing as it is, the child being molested was probably a child molester himself in a past incarnation. It's karma at work there. Karma doesn't always act out in one's current incarnation because of age or other issues but it does catch up to you ultimately.

"John the Baptist and Elijah were two different people, but they had similar roles. John came in the "spirit" of Elijah."

Nope. You almost have it.
The spirit of Elijah reincarnated as John the baptist.
Jesus said:
"For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come." (Matthew 11:13-14)

[Rizzo]

Still waiting to read what Boaz has to say on the questions asked in Post #1.

[Ickisrulz]

"You are reading your own ideas into Scripture."

Looks like you are doing that yourself with your replies.

The explanations I provided are pretty standard and universally arrived at by responsible Bible commentators and clergy.

Your method of interpretation is called eisegesis and accounts for your wild claims which are contrary to the Bible's message concerning man and his experience.

[Rizzo]

The explanations I provided are pretty standard and universally arrived at by responsible Bible commentators and clergy.

Your method of interpretation is called eisegesis and accounts for your wild claims which are contrary to the Bible's message concerning man and his experience.

Wow, eisegesis. I had to look it up.

For those wondering.....
eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.
That and your "wild claims" comment is pretty insulting.

I know that reincarnation is a topic that makes Christians uncomfortable and is not part of their belief system but to me it still falls under the umbrella of theological discussion.
I am not here to stir things up but to read and interact with other person's points of view on the matter.
I did not start the flow of this topic.
Don't be so defensive.

Reincarnation makes sense to me.
It predates Christianity. The early Christians (Gnostics) believed in it.
I believe it was 300 years after Jesus that the belief system was squashed and books burned that mentioned it.
There are so many stories about childhood recollections of past lives that prove to be credible that one can only think that something is going on here. Then there are Bible passages (Elijah/John) that, at least, are suggestive to reincarnation.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

[Ickisrulz]

Wow, eisegesis. I had to look it up.

For those wondering.....
eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.
That and your "wild claims" comment is pretty insulting.

I know that reincarnation is a topic that makes Christians uncomfortable and is not part of their belief system but to me it still falls under the umbrella of theological discussion.
I am not here to stir things up but to read and interact with other person's points of view on the matter.
I did not start the flow of this topic.
Don't be so defensive.

Reincarnation makes sense to me.
It predates Christianity. The early Christians (Gnostics) believed in it.
I believe it was 300 years after Jesus that the belief system was squashed and books burned that mentioned it.
There are so many stories about childhood recollections of past lives that prove to be credible that one can only think that something is going on here. Then there are Bible passages (Elijah/John) that, at least, are suggestive to reincarnation.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

You are free to incorporate any ideas you desire into your own personal beliefs, of course. But it is important to realize what is and what is not supported by the Bible. Reincarnation is most certainly not. The Apostles spent much effort to debunk erroneous doctrines--many of these errors came from the Gnostics. As a believer in the inspired Word of God I steer away from Gnostic teachings/beliefs.

[rl69]

Boaz will not enter this sub forum

There are things we will never know there are things we will never understand on this side of the vale. Keep reading keep praying keep listing
I am the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the father but threw me.

[LAH]

Boaz will not enter this sub forum

Only reason I'm here is I suggested a new thread be started. So I'll add this & I'm out of here.

I've wondered at times if my spirit existed in heaven before my body was made. God did tell Jeremiah: Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Other than that nothing has stirred me. And most likely The Lord was simply saying He knew what Jeremiah would be & do before he was born. So I'm not too big on reincarnation in the way we normally think of it.

[Rizzo]

Only reason I'm here is I suggested a new thread be started. So I'll add this & I'm out of here.

I've wondered at times if my spirit existed in heaven before my body was made. God did tell Jeremiah: Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Other than that nothing has stirred me. And most likely The Lord was simply saying He knew what Jeremiah would be & do before he was born. So I'm not too big on reincarnation in the way we normally think of it.

Actually Boaz directed me to this Theo. Forum.

Or,....are you acting in the "spirit" of Boaz. (grin)
Or,...are you Boaz but have two usernames here?
If so, I don't think that multiple usernames are allowed here.

[Down South]

Originally Posted by Boaz
...... Do you know this fallen world is not your real home ? Do you know that he knew you before when he placed you in your mothers womb ? .............


I do believe that.
But, I am unsure how you are meaning those questions.
To me you are suggesting that we pre-existed before our maternal birth. That is, existed in the Spiritual realms before material birth.
Also that we have "fallen" from that Spiritual existence.
Given that, it makes sense that Jesus knew us.

It's actually a suggestion that reincarnation is real.
I happen to believe it is BTW.

Could you elaborate a little? Thanks.

I don't have the time to go into a lot of detail. But, I'll give you a quick answer. God knew all of us before the foundation of the world. He is Alpha & Omega. He can see the future/end from beginning of creation. We did not exist until we were conceived but God knew us.

[LAH]

You are correct. I suggested a new thread:

I'm sure many will read what you have to say or better still start another thread. Like you, I believe the lost read this.

Boaz said:

I would take in to the theological forum .

As for your comment:

Or,....are you acting in the "spirit" of Boaz. (grin)
Or,...are you Boaz but have two usernames here?
If so, I don't think that multiple usernames are allowed here.

Boaz needs no help from me.

[fatelk]

Live by the sword, die by the sword means exactly that, not your generalized view of it.
For example, as sad and disturbing as it is, the child being molested was probably a child molester himself in a past incarnation. It's karma at work there. Karma doesn't always act out in one's current incarnation because of age or other issues but it does catch up to you ultimately.

I have to say I think Ickisrulz is spot on in post #4. No offense intended, but I think you're mixing a couple religions together, and from a Biblical perspective your ideas are pretty wild. I've never heard of any legitimate theologian who would support what you're saying.

A child is molested because they were a molester in a previous life, and is getting payback? Do you really believe that? Again, no offense intended to you, but that is a seriously offensive statement, to me. Really?

[Rizzo]

[QUOTE=LAH;4290063]You are correct. I suggested a new thread:

I re-read your post in The Chapel and it was a reply to StolzerandSons, not me.
That's how I took it anyway.
Anyway, I see that you are a different user now.
Thanks for the reply.

[Rizzo]

I have to say I think Ickisrulz is spot on in post #4. No offense intended, but I think you're mixing a couple religions together, and from a Biblical perspective your ideas are pretty wild. I've never heard of any legitimate theologian who would support what you're saying.

A child is molested because they were a molester in a previous life, and is getting payback? Do you really believe that? Again, no offense intended to you, but that is a seriously offensive statement, to me. Really?

That is because you do not believe in reincarnation or the Law of Cause and Effect (Karma).
I do, as many do. They are not "pretty wild" ideas.
So it makes sense to me in the child molester example.
You reap what you sow.
No offense to you or anyone else intended.
I'm merely stating "Where I'm at".
That is where I am at.

So, where are you at on the issue of Jesus stating that John the Baptist was Elijah?
Do you see at least a "wild" suggestion of reincarnation there?

[fatelk]

The vast majority of knowledgeable Christians and Biblical scholars would consider your views wild to the point of absurd. That’s a fact.

If that’s where you are at, I can respect that. Personally I’m not there, and never will be because I’m not able to do the mental gymnastics required to twist scripture in that way. Much of the Bible is difficult to really understand, but I think the passages you’re concerned about are pretty straightforward.

I’m not sure what you are wanting here. Those simply are not traditional Christian beliefs, and are so opposed to core Christian principles that it’s something else entirely. It’s your right to believe what you want but you’d probably get a better response talking to Buddhists or Hindus.

No offense intended, it’s just that you’re probably not going to get many converts here.

[fatelk]

Unless of course your point is just to stir things up. The molestation comment pegged my BS meter a bit, makes me suspect some trolling or something. I can’t imagine that anyone would seriously suggest that an innocent child that’s been victimized in that way, somehow deserved it because of sins in a past life?

No, I think this is a bad joke, and now I feel silly for participating.

[Rizzo]

Unless of course your point is just to stir things up. The molestation comment pegged my BS meter a bit, makes me suspect some trolling or something. I can’t imagine that anyone would seriously suggest that an innocent child that’s been victimized in that way, somehow deserved it because of sins in a past life?

No, I think this is a bad joke, and now I feel silly for participating.

Feel silly if you want to.
Stirring things up? Trolling?
No and no.
I am sincere in my beliefs as you are.

To quote myself from post #8:
"I know that reincarnation is a topic that makes Christians uncomfortable and is not part of their belief system but to me it still falls under the umbrella of theological discussion.
I am not here to stir things up but to read and interact with other person's points of view on the matter.
I did not start the flow of this topic.
Don't be so defensive."

As disturbing as it is, the child molester example of Karma is spot on with that belief system.
To repeat. You reap what you sow.

I am not trying to "convert" anyone here.
This is a Theo. discussion forum.
I sincerely asked you about the Jesus/Elijah/John the Baptist issue and you ignored it.
Fine. No problem.

Suggestion:
Don't be so uptight about views that differ from yours.
I am being respectful (with some criticism) of replies about this topic so I would expect the same from others here.
Thanks for your input.