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Thread: Remington Arms bankruptcy

  1. #41
    Boolit Master RogerDat's Avatar
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    One has to ask how much of the company "debt" is the new owners borrowing money as the company to pay off the short term loans they used to buy it in the first place. Or if there was an employee pension fund what is it currently invested in?

    Reason I ask the second question is local Michigan insurance company was purchased by a larger east coast insurance company. The purchaser immediately converted the fully funded defined benefit employee pension portfolio into one entirely invested in the east coast company stock as they migrated it to a 401k plan. Some fully or mostly vested employees were required by law to get their defined benefit but it took some pushback to make it happen. Buying the company stock is essentially giving the purchasing company the cash in the pension plan portfolio.

    Don't know if Remington got A&P treatment but that could explain the new facilities. A&P grocery owned the stores and property that they sold groceries from, they took a hit from Wal-Mart but were still profitable. They were purchased by an "investment" company that then split the company into a real estate holding company and a grocery company that had to lease the stores from the real estate company. Sucked every dime of profit and more out of the grocery sales so that company had a tax loss, took profits from real estate company as investment income. In the end A&P went broke, the real estate was sold off. The "investors" got the proceeds of the sale. So one might want to find out who really owns the new Remington facilities. Leased from self is a good way to loot a company while preventing yourself from getting a hair cut in the bankruptcy.

    It would be good if they could restructure, and in the process maybe sell off some assets to more successful firearms oriented companies. As opposed as people that would invest in any business that offered the chance to make a buck through sales or some other process.

    Have to agree the market is semi-saturated. But that doesn't mean dried up, it simply means one has to be able to make a profit on a reduced market or grow the market with innovative or new products. Glock didn't invent auto loaders, it made one that even people who owned a pistol already wanted to have. Inline black powder has become a significant market that did not exist when I was a young man.
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  2. #42
    Boolit Master quail4jake's Avatar
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    Out of the ashes shall rise the phoenix. Remington may be pushed into chapter 7 or flounder under a chapter 11 re structuring, either way the sooner the better. It's unrealistic to operate a firearms related business (or any other business) in hostile New York, the sooner the assets and brand names (Remington, Marlin, Parker) can be sold the sooner a conscientious maker can utilize them to bring a re birth of once well made firearms...in a business friendly state and for a lot more money. Look at Savage with A.H.Fox turning a great gun into kmart trash then Galazan resurrected the name (in Connecticut?), well anyway. Winchester's long overdue sale and exodus to FN in South Carolina shows the natural course of what can be done without labor unions, hostile state government and relocating to a place with fewer libtards per acre! Let the sell off begin! Vivat Novo Remington!

  3. #43
    Boolit Master


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    bankruptcy may be a way to get rem away from that NY deal.

  4. #44
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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lash-debt.html
    remington gets to get rid of $700 million in debt, gets $145 million to keep doors open and gets new owners. They are not leaving NYS but one thing they are going to have to deal with is that since Trump got elected the panic firearms buying is over. Who knows maybe a new conflict in the world will bail them out along with all the other paper firearm companies that exist these days.
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  5. #45
    Boolit Master




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    http://gunsmagazine.com/1956issues/G0556.pdf
    In 1956, the banner question was if Colt would ever make a comeback. They (Remington) will reorganize, sell some stuff off, make a few profitable line acquisitions and move forward with their new headquarters out of the state of NY and leaving Ilion NY for the communists in Albany.
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  6. #46
    Boolit Buddy
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    The same thing happened to the Hostess Twinkie people.
    They were bought out, by the big financial folks, ...who then borrowed hugely on the credit worthiness of the company,,,

    Then the financiers put the borrowed cash into their own pockets, and walked way, leaving Hostess bankrupt, with a massive debt.

    They call it corporate raiding....

    Remington, and Hostess were hit by "raiders."

    .
    Not the fault of Hostess, ...not the fault of Remington.
    .
    I rather liked Remington, they ....were a fine company who sold a nice line of very fine rifles a common guy like me could afford.
    .
    Now Remington s are plastic, mixed with rough ground steel, and you find them for sale at wall Mart....

  7. #47
    Boolit Master


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    Speaking of twinkies.. After their selloff to TC? They aren't the same. Not that I'm a big snowball or twinkie water.. But a time ir 2 a year I might have one or the other. The 'new' ones taste completely different. Part of it is the texture of the 'cake' and consistency of the filling, heavier..different less pleasing 'mouthfeel'.

  8. #48
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    ..
    ..Part of it is the texture of the 'cake' and consistency of the filling, heavier..different less pleasing 'mouthfeel'.
    Of one thing I am absolutely certain - I will not get involved in a conversation that contains the word "mouthfeel".
    "Varium et mutabile semper femina." - Virgil
    Man, ain't it the truth....

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    Speaking of twinkies.. After their selloff to TC? They aren't the same. Not that I'm a big snowball or twinkie water.. But a time ir 2 a year I might have one or the other. The 'new' ones taste completely different. Part of it is the texture of the 'cake' and consistency of the filling, heavier..different less pleasing 'mouthfeel'.
    thats because the do-gooders in washing made it illegal for them to put the good stuff in the treats, because its "bad for you". just like mcdonalds fries, no where near as good since they were forced to change the grease.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty o View Post
    thats because the do-gooders in washing made it illegal for them to put the good stuff in the treats, because its "bad for you". just like mcdonalds fries, no where near as good since they were forced to change the grease.
    but, but, but its for the kids
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  11. #51
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookworm View Post
    Of one thing I am absolutely certain - I will not get involved in a conversation that contains the word "mouthfeel".
    Oh it's a great word, you're missing out

  12. #52
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by swheeler View Post
    I hate to see this happen to an American institution but think it was bound to. They continued on a downward spiral for the last two decades, quality just wasn't in their vocabulary any longer.
    I have to agree with that. The Remington guns that were available when I was a young man were much better made than what has been made recently and for that reason I have not seriously included Remington in any of my recent gun purchase decisions.

  13. #53
    Boolit Master
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    I’m sure they will prevail. I hate to hear of any company closing it’s doors and hundreds of workers out on the street. To bad there isn’t more industry in that area to keep folks employed if Rem was able to relocate.
    I’d support them if there was something I needed and had the funds for it.

    Mike

  14. #54
    Boolit Master


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    My first rifle (22LR 552 BDL) and shotgun (1100 BDL) were Remingtons but that was late 60s and everything has suffered since then. Glad I still have them since I couldn't afford to replace them.
    From top of the heap to bankruptcy is a big fall.
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  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    This is music to my ears. I really hope H&R has a chance to start making single shots again. There is a huge gap for low priced, quality guns that the cheap bolt actions just don't satisfy. I don't like bolt actions anyway. I'd be first in line for at least 10 rifle/handgun barrels and 2-3 shotgun barrels.

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