Making that Bullet Collator

[Rcmaveric]

Yes. Restats or variable resistors will slow the motor but at a loss to torque. So you wouldn't be able to turn as much weight. Also isnt good for the motor and may decrease its life.

PWM is better. The wave visual works for guys like us who study sine waves. A more rudimentary way is to imagine hard wiring power and ground to the motor. Then install a switch on the ground leg of that and rapidly flicking that switch 1000 times a second. The voltage remains the same. All its doing adding and removing the ground at set intervals.

A note on the sensor. You are going to need a decent quality capacitive sensor. Lead is non ferrous (magnetic). So looking for sensor rated to detect it will help. They work by using a magnetic feild to induce a voltage and then detecting that. Materials that are non magnetic will respond with a a weak signal. For more information see link
https://www.se.com/uk/en/faqs/FA22749/

NPN or PNP doesn't matter. Thats just how the transistor in side the sensor works. NPN mean Neutral-Power-Neutral and it will send out a ground (this is the most common as controlling ground is safest). PNP stands for Power-Neutral-Power it will send out a power signal when tripped.

Search for an NPN sensor rated for nonferrous metals will enhance your success.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[TylerR]

A note on the sensor. You are going to need a decent quality capacitive sensor. Lead is non ferrous (magnetic). So looking for sensor rated to detect it will help. They work by using a magnetic feild to induce a voltage and then detecting that. Materials that are non magnetic will respond with a a weak signal. For more information see link
https://www.se.com/uk/en/faqs/FA22749/

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

My understanding was that a capacitive sensor would sense non metallic objects, like plastic. Is that not the case?

[TylerR]

I tried another sensor as well. Both seem to work unless there is any wiggle room (aka drop tube movement) it will go off and on. wonder if that bevel being about where the prox flat spot is lets the top move away ever so slightly causing that? Did you have issues with it moving with brass? that or would maybe undersizing the hole help (without binding the brass obviously).

I just recreated this exact setup here and I did not have any issues with the AUTONICS PRD18-14DN2 sensor and it worked like a champ.

If anyone has a line on a more reliable sensor I am all ears. We can even update the manual to reflect the new one. All I am saying is that with my setup the furthest it really has to detect is 2.5mm, which really isnt't that far. The (AUTONICS PRD18-14DN2) claims to have 14mm detection under ideal conditions.

[TylerR]

One more idea, just spitballing. If the plastic does in some way reduce the detection range with an inductive sensor, I could look to add a circular cutout where the sensor meets the drop tube.

[djinnpb]

I just recreated this exact setup here and I did not have any issues with the AUTONICS PRD18-14DN2 sensor and it worked like a champ.

If anyone has a line on a more reliable sensor I am all ears. We can even update the manual to reflect the new one. All I am saying is that with my setup the furthest it really has to detect is 2.5mm, which really isnt't that far. The (AUTONICS PRD18-14DN2) claims to have 14mm detection under ideal conditions.

Tyler you have any issues with other sensors at all? I wish the AUTONICS PRD18-14DN2 was as easily sourced. I'll have to wait a fair bit to get one.

To rule out hole size. What is the inner hole size on the 10mm as printed for you? I'm going to print another and undersize the hole a touch and see if if that helps. So much potential with these but I would be amazed if that AUTONICS PRD18-14DN2 really can reliably detect 14mm. If so perhaps well worth the wait to get some. Though I really thought the PR18-14DN2 (no D) would be the same China product with a diff end cap.

[djinnpb]

One more idea, just spitballing. If the plastic does in some way reduce the detection range with an inductive sensor, I could look to add a circular cutout where the sensor meets the drop tube.

Hrm that might help but with that curved ramp it leaves a bit of a distance. Just a thought but what about moving the flat a little lower than the ramp (closer to the photocell holes). It would likely help a stable piece and maybe have more meat that the flat could go in a touch more to get closer?

[GWS]

Tyler, that might not be enough for little cases,

I always suggested leaning the tubes so the bullets fall on the sensor side, and I do that and the sensor is 100% on bullets....except the .223's.....so I designed a warped tube insert to force the little bullets closer to the sensor, and that worked for me perfectly. (but my sensor tube is angled for bullets)

So then I try the TylerR base for case collating and I'm back to a vertical drop. For .308's that's no problems period, but again .223's going down the same housing work best only if they can be made to fall close to the sensor.

I tested it with .223's a few minutes ago, by just plugging the outlet with a hand. I found that it forces the little .223's at angles inside the housing....and forces at lease one case to lean the sensor direction as the video below shows:



So then another test video below: I first stuck a .308 up from the bottom.....I could find one spot where the switch wouldn't sense it....but I had to work at it, and it's never happened just dropping .308 normally.

.223 is another matter....there were plenty of spots where it wasn't sensed....meaning maybe it could use an insert like I did with bullets that warps the tube into the sensor. So all's not perfect with .223.....and yet as the first video above shows the .223 cases tend to bunch up at an angle, so I'm not sure in use whether it will be a problem. Food for thought....and more experimentation. Keep in mind that my housing doen't have any plastic separation.

[TylerR]

Tyler you have any issues with other sensors at all? I wish the AUTONICS PRD18-14DN2 was as easily sourced. I'll have to wait a fair bit to get one.

To rule out hole size. What is the inner hole size on the 10mm as printed for you? I'm going to print another and undersize the hole a touch and see if if that helps. So much potential with these but I would be amazed if that AUTONICS PRD18-14DN2 really can reliably detect 14mm. If so perhaps well worth the wait to get some. Though I really thought the PR18-14DN2 (no D) would be the same China product with a diff end cap.

Yeah I am not happy that it's not easily sourced, because it is compact, light weight and reliable. I have to admit I was very dissapointed with the rated detection range and what it actually is. Out of the supposed 14mm range I am getting around 5mm. I know that has to do with iron vs lead vs brass but even so....

So o416's amazing manual lists the drop tube number with its actual ID on page 14. the #10 drop tube is actually 10.5mm ID. This was done to handle 10mm and .40 bullets.

[TylerR]

Hrm that might help but with that curved ramp it leaves a bit of a distance. Just a thought but what about moving the flat a little lower than the ramp (closer to the photocell holes). It would likely help a stable piece and maybe have more meat that the flat could go in a touch more to get closer?

I can look at that but the tolerances are super close already.

[TylerR]

Any professional opinions of removing some the the plastic between the sensor and the metal? Will that make any difference?

[noacess]

Just to add a little more to this proximity sensor discussion. I've had 0 issues with 300BLK cases using the PRD18-14DN2 sensor and the #10 tube. However, last night I tried out the uxcell 8mm sensor ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) with 220gr berrys plated in a #8 tube and it seems like this sensor just barely does not detect them. If I push the bullet a hair towards the sensor it works. I have a second PRD18-14DN2 I'm going to wire up and see if it helps. I'll report back with the results.

So I just tested the PRD18-14DN2 sensor and had the exact same issue as the uxcell 8mm. When the bullets are lining up in the tube, the part of the bullet that starts to taper ends up being right in front of where the proximity sensor is detecting and its just barely too far away to detect it. All I have to do is give the slightest touch towards the sensor and detection occurs.

[djinnpb]

... plastic between the sensor and the metal? Will that make any difference?

Oddly I tested with the large box slider lid (2.75mm) and with some thick cardboard (2.8mm) and it's the further it will read.. I think if the Autonics PRD18-14DN2 really will do 4mm it would probably be great. Though I can't believe there isn't another sensing distance equivalent easily sourced. Both with and without plastic in the way didn't seem to make much difference.
Also took one of the cheap sensor apart to see if the sensor was really at the tip or not (if they could be pushed forward at all.. apparently not a great idea.

[TylerR]

So I just tested the PRD18-14DN2 sensor and had the exact same issue as the uxcell 8mm. When the bullets are lining up in the tube, the part of the bullet that starts to taper ends up being right in front of where the proximity sensor is detecting and its just barely too far away to detect it. All I have to do is give the slightest touch towards the sensor and detection occurs.

I could certainly reduce the taper some at the top of the drop tube. I just want to make the bullets are still feeding properly.

[TylerR]

Oddly I tested with the large box slider lid (2.75mm) and with some thick cardboard (2.8mm) and it's the further it will read.. I think if the Autonics PRD18-14DN2 really will do 4mm it would probably be great. Though I can't believe there isn't another sensing distance equivalent easily sourced. Both with and without plastic in the way didn't seem to make much difference.
Also took one of the cheap sensor apart to see if the sensor was really at the tip or not (if they could be pushed forward at all.. apparently not a great idea.

If you can find one as good and easily sourced we are all ears

[noacess]

I could certainly reduce the taper some at the top of the drop tube. I just want to make the bullets are still feeding properly.

I'm happy to test any solution you think might provide an improvement. If you have a modified #8 tube let me know and I'll give it a whirl.

Thanks!

[thump_rrr]

There goes 18 hours down the drain
Power failure while I wasn’t home.
Build plate cooled down enough for the plate to come unstuck.

[thump_rrr]

Tyler, Speaking of jams destroying the motor here are a few of my experiences:

I am using the Dayton Motor, at first I had drilled and put a 3/8 roll pin in the shaft and used your stock #2 plate. The diameter of the motor shaft on my motor is 8MM on the dot and the #2 plate is 10.1 (making an assumption based off of the number listed in the manual), because there is a 2mm difference there was some play in the plate when it was positioned on the shaft. I has come occasional issues with jams and I'm not sure if it was due to the plate being loose or what. At one point the plate had jammed and was STUCK, ultimately the roll pin had dug into the side of the plate. I have since abandoned that plate.

I created a new plate with a hex adapter and printed a new plate. When I created the plate I screwed up and did not put the right height for rifle bullets but started testing it anyway while I waited for the new plate to print out. It seemed that with the plate being properly centered and not having the extra play like the pinned shaft did everything worked a little better. Since the plate was very short and the hex adapter was only 1/2-3/5 of the way inside of the plate the first jam stripped out the hole.

Que the 3rd plate - This one I made the proper height so the hex adapter was seated all the way inside the plate. This one worked really well and only had a few bullets go in upside down but did have a few hangups. I did end up having it get stuck pretty good a couple times and at one point the hex adapter started slipping on the shaft. I pulled everything off and found that the set screw may have backed out a bit and ripped itself out of the adapter and galled up the motor shaft pretty good.

It seems these motors are pretty powerful. lol

So, currently I have another plate on the printer, going back to the pinned shaft. This one I made with a 8.1mm hole diameter instead of the 10.1 to make sure the plate is centered with less slop and I can open the hole up bigger with a drill bit if needed. I also included 4 walls to try to help with the roll pin not digging in like the first plate.

Have you tried printing a proper hex adapter with a flat in it?
I didn’t get the depth right on this one so I was printing another when I lost power.

Sorry for the crappy images but I’m working with a headlight on.

[HuskJ]

There goes 18 hours down the drain
Power failure while I wasn’t home.
Build plate cooled down enough for the plate to come unstuck.

Been there my man, I have a few "coasters" on my desk from the power outtage.

[TylerR]

Been there my man, I have a few "coasters" on my desk from the power outtage.

There is a reason i have my printer on a battery backup.

[thump_rrr]

There is a reason i have my printer on a battery backup.

How big a UPS do you have?
So far it went out for 2 hours this afternoon and it’s been out again since 7:00pm and the estimated restoration time is 10:30pm.

I can understand a few hours worth but anything longer than that you probably need a generator.